Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

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now I read
Samsung announces folding phone with 5G capabilities at nearly $2,000
Updated 12:53, 21-Feb-2019
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Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. on Wednesday unveiled a nearly 2,000-U.S.-dollar folding smartphone in a bid to break the innovation funk that has beset the smartphone market and reignite consumer interest in a massive consumer electronics category that had its worst sales ever last year.

The Galaxy Fold will go on sale for 1,980 U.S. dollars on April 26 and take advantage of new and faster 5G mobile networks. The device looks similar to a conventional smartphone, but then opens like a book to reveal a display the size of a small tablet at 7.3 inches (18.5 cm).

When fully unfolded, the device will be able to simultaneously run three different apps on the screen. The Galaxy Fold will also boast six cameras: three in the back, two on the inside and one on the front.

The device "answers skeptics who said that everything that could be done has been done," DJ Koh, chief executive of Samsung Electronics, said at an event in San Francisco. "We are here to prove them wrong."

With the foldable phone, Samsung is trying to take the technology lead on two fronts in the smartphone race: offering an eye-catching new feature with the big, bending screen and the first 5G connection in a premium phone, a feature analysts do not expect Apple to match until 2020.

It also challenges the notion of what a phone can cost, debuting at nearly twice the price of current top-of-the-line models from Apple and Samsung itself.

Patrick Moorhead, founder of Moor Insights & Strategy, said the new folding device could help Samsung stay at the top and lure consumers to upgrade devices that have looked largely the same over the past five years.

"Samsung and Apple go back and forth" to lead the premium smartphone market, Moorhead said. "I think this is Samsung's chance to take back the innovation crown."

Samsung said it had developed new manufacturing processes for the phone's hinge and flexible display to tolerate opening and closing hundreds of thousands of times.

Samsung is not the first company to launch a folding phone.
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.

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, the key component for a folding phone. Last year, Chinese display manufacturer BOE has announced to start mass production of flexible screens and will rival Samsung in this market.

10 times faster with 5G
Along with the folding phone, Samsung also added new cameras and a 5G version to its Galaxy series of phones.

Verizon Communications Inc. will be the first carrier to offer service for Samsung's 5G phones. The networks are expected to be 10 times faster than current ones, improving viewing of live news and sports events.

The 5G smartphones, both folding and rigid, aim to beat major rivals Apple and Xiaomi Corp. to market with a next-generation device as Samsung defends a narrowing lead in global handset shipments, while Apple is not expected to release a 5G smartphone until late 2020.

Rival smartphone makers are expected to announce 5G models at next week's Mobile World Congress (MWC), the industry's top annual event, in Spain. Samsung said its 5G handset would be available in the early summer.

Other new products and phone models released by Samsung

Samsung also introduced several accessories to compete against Apple, including a pair of wireless headphones called Galaxy Buds. The headphones include wireless charging, a feature that Apple has promised to put into its competing AirPods but has not yet released.

Samsung also said that its new Galaxy phones will be able to wirelessly charge its headphones and new smartwatches by setting the accessories on the back of the phone.

Samsung also released new Galaxy S10 phones that echo the features in other recent models. Each device in the S10 lineup boasts fancy cameras, sleek screens covering the entire front of the devices and at least 128 gigabytes of storage – all essential features to consumers shopping for phones.

The new phones are able to take wider-angle shots than previous models and can charge other devices, including wireless headphones and smartwatches. A fourth S10 model, due out this spring, will have faster wireless speeds through the emerging 5G cellular network.

Two of Samsung's new models, the S10 and the S10 Plus, are largely incremental upgrades of last year's S9 and S9 Plus, although they are designed differently. They are about the same size as last year's models but will have more display space, as Samsung found additional ways to eliminate waste around the edges. As a byproduct, the top right of the display has a circle or oval cut out for the front-facing cameras.

The lowest-priced "essentials" model, the S10e, has most of the same features but is five percent smaller than the S10 in volume. The S10e also lacks curved edges, a signature feature for many Samsung phones.

All of the Galaxy series of rigid phones except the 5G will be available from March 8, with the S10+ priced from 1,000 U.S. dollars, the S10 priced from 900 U.S. dollars and the smaller S10e from 750 U.S. dollars.

The mainline S10 compares with 999 U.S. dollars for Apple's iPhone XS and 858 U.S. dollars for Huawei's premium Mate 20 Pro.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
I remember reading that US had successfully stolen the source code for a number of Huawei products.

Could that have contributed to this unexpectedly fast catchup?

Some sources estimated a 1 year delay on rollout if going with non-Huawei suppliers.

Does this mean that the delay has drastically shortened?
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
10x faster than 4G isn’t 5G, it’s slightly improved 4G faking as 5G. True 5G should offer speeds 1000x faster than 4G, as a minimum.

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Althiugh to be fair to Samsung, it’s not clear from the article if this meagre improvement is down to their tech or Verizon’s poor network capabilities.

real benefit would come from fixing congestion
which helps Asian megacities more than most of the US

maybe thats why US not in such a hurry, or they just mad world didn’t pick up their wimax standard back in the day
 

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
You guys need to do your research. Samsung has plenty of 5G IP. As do quite a few other non-Chinese companies.
 

Max Demian

Junior Member
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...
Make no mistake about supercomputers; China is very much ahead. Summit and Sierra are essentially copies of each other that debuted with much less performance and much later than they were intended to. Sierra is simply a match for Taihulight, not nearly "eclipsing" it, despite being much newer. China is not interesting in incremental improvements on systems like that or they could have copied and enhanced Taihulight several times as well to push it into the 200-300+pf range but China is far ahead pursuing exascale systems and quantum computing. When you saw Summit and Sierra rise to the top rankings, you saw American desperation to put on a show reminding the world that the US isn't completely defeated yet with China glad to let them tout that horn because as of recent, China has looked very overpowering and intimidating in the world, a bit much for its own good.

It's all very dramatic the way you paint it, but the facts are more sober. When I said Taihulight was eclipsed, I looked at more than just peak arithmetic power and HPL scores. While Sierra has only the narrowest lead in HPL, it does so by consuming 48% power the Taihulight does. And then Summit is 10% more power-efficient than Sierra. But things have changed in the last few years in the HPC world. Metrics like HPL are no longer as representative as they used to be. New benchmarks like HPCG, which exercise collective operations and employ sparse data structures putting a much higher strain on memory and interconnect systems are a better predictor for big data applications that have become so important lately. The 2018 Gordon Bell prize was awarded to a team from Oak Ridge for presenting an application that achieved a peak throughput of 2.36 exa FLOPS on the Summit supercomputer. And then there's AI. The same Gordon Bell prize was awarded to a team that presented the first deep learning application to breach the 1 exa FLOP barrier. So although by the classical defintion we are still a ways off from an actual exascale supercomputer in terms of double precision FLOPS, by these new measures we are already there.

But don't think that I am belittling the effort of Chinese scientists and engineers. After all, they won the Gordon Bell prize in 2016 and 2017 for quite impressive work on petascale applications on Taihulight.

TL/DR I don't think it's possible to say at this moment who is ahead. For one, the issue is largely about money. A billion dollars would likely buy you a grossly inneficient exascascale supercomputer today, whether you are China or the US. Second, the relevant metrics are changing, and by some measures we already are in the exascale era.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
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While Sierra has only the narrowest lead in HPL, it does so by consuming 48% power the Taihulight does.

Most of Sierra's computing power is imported from Taiwan.

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at the core of the massive level of computational capability is the 27,648 flagship Nvidia ... Volta graphics chips

Nvidia Tesla V100 chips
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, using the firm's 12-nm FinFET process.

In a way, therefore, the U.S.'s much-vaunted supercomputer comes mostly from China.


But things have changed in the last few years in the HPC world. Metrics like HPL are no longer as representative as they used to be. New benchmarks like HPCG, which exercise collective operations and employ sparse data structures putting a much higher strain on memory and interconnect systems are a better predictor for big data applications that have become so important lately.

If you are losing, move the goalposts.


The 2018 Gordon Bell prize was awarded to a team from Oak Ridge for presenting an application that achieved a peak throughput of 2.36 exa FLOPS on the Summit supercomputer.

The Oak Ridge team used quarter-precision arithmetic. If you only compute a quarter of the digits, then obviously your computation goes much faster. I rather expected the US to put out this bit of propaganda, probably in an attempt to pre-empt China's real exaflop supercomputer.
 
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Nutrient

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Nvidia ... Volta graphics chips

Nvidia Tesla V100 chips
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, using the firm's 12-nm FinFET process.

The Marketwatch article is mistaken: the Nvidia chips used in the Sierra supercomputer are called "Tesla V100", as I stated, and are indeed made in Taiwan. The GPU architecture in the Tesla V100 is called Volta. Sorry if that was confusing.
 

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why are you so hell bent in painting this picture as China strong and US weak? I laid out the facts as objectively as I could.
Most of Sierra's computing power is imported from Taiwan.
And that makes them lose face? Nvidia is a US company, and so are IBM and Mellanox. Would you respect them more if they contracted Intel to manufacture the chips instead?

If you are losing, move the goalposts.
Who's losing at what??

The Oak Ridge team used quarter-precision arithmetic. If you only compute a quarter of the digits, then obviously your computation goes much faster. I rather expected the US to put out this bit of propaganda, probably in an attempt to pre-empt China's real exaflop supercomputer.
Wrong. The computation doesn't obviously go faster if your microarchitecture does not have native fp8 and fp16 support. These just happen to be critical to fast machine learning algorithms. The Gordon Bell prize is the most prestigious award in the HPC application world. Show some respect.
 

weig2000

Captain
I guess it's quite significant that one after another British current and former intelligence officers came out to endorse UK NCSC's recommendation not to ban Huawei 5G technology. They even went so far as urge caution about Huawei spying media narrative and call the whole Huawei thing as it is: it's political.

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18th February 2019 12:05PM

The recommendation by the UK National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) not to ban Huawei 5G technology in the UK over security concerns has been welcomed by a former senior British intelligence officer.

Two unnamed NCSC sources quoted by the
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have said that any risk the Chinese telecoms giant poses to UK security can be managed without needing to ban the company. The approach is a significant contrast to the US, which has enacted an outright ban and encouraged allies to follow suit.

The UK government will decide whether to enact a ban on Huawei 5G technology by April.

The news, which has not yet been officially published by the NCSC, has been welcomed by former senior British intelligence officer Malcolm Taylor, director of cybersecurity at ITC Secure.

“I was pleased to see the NCSC agree this morning and I thought their comments were extremely sensible,” he told Verdict.

“I think to date that the UK has taken a good risk-managed approach to Huawei; there’s the cell, and there’s the report of 18 months ago, and there were some recommendations in that but there were no red flags. Huawei has said they are going to take steps to address them.

“We are as a nation risk managing, and that’s what good cybersecurity is all about.

“And we shouldn’t forget that Huawei makes very good equipment and sells it very competitively. They are doing well and they are good at what they do.”

Caution urged over Huawei 5G spying narrative
Taylor also urged caution over how the Huawei spying narrative has developed in the media – particularly around the willingness to paint the company as a shady arm of a hostile nation.

“We need to be careful in the way we present this issue,” he said.

“Because the most important and biggest threat is criminal, and it’s relatively low tech, it’s not sophisticated, it’s broadcast and it’s affecting companies, individuals and other organisations significantly and it’s just not talked about as much as it should be.”

He highlighted that the Huawei narrative was, in particular, far more of a
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than a cybersecurity one.

“People are getting a bit dragged away to focusing on ‘it’s all about the Russians, it’s all about the Chinese’. Nation states attacking us are frightening, and perhaps even to the point where organisations switch off because it feels too difficult to beat them,” said Taylor.

“It isn’t, but it’s understandable that organisations can be made to feel that way. I actually think the Huawei thing is significantly about the trade war between the US and China – it’s in large part political.”
 
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