Is the US shooting itself in the foot by banning Huawei?

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weig2000

Captain
It appears that New Zealand has had some second-thoughts on Huawei, after being asked to set an example for the "international community" and "the rest of the world" to ban Huawei equipment. China is by far New Zealand's largest trading partner, and NZ is relying on increasingly more Chinese tourists for revenue. I suppose UK has set a good example then.

A stampede? Hardly. A crack? Feels like one.

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WELLINGTON (Reuters) - New Zealand will independently assess the risk of using China’s Huawei Technologies in 5G networks, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said on Monday after a report suggested that British precautions could be used by other nations.

Huawei, the world’s biggest producer of telecoms equipment, faces intense scrutiny in the West over its relationship with the Chinese government and U.S.-led allegations that its equipment could be used by Beijing for spying.

No evidence has been produced publicly and the firm has repeatedly denied the allegations, which have led several Western countries to restrict Huawei’s access to their markets.

The Financial Times reported on Sunday that the British government had decided it can mitigate the risks arising from the use of Huawei equipment in 5G networks. It said Britain’s conclusion would “carry great weight” with European leaders and other nations could use similar precautions.

New Zealand’s intelligence agency in November rejected an initial request from telecommunications services provider Spark to use 5G equipment provided by Huawei.

At the time, the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) gave Spark options to mitigate national security concerns over the use of Huawei equipment, Ardern said on Monday.

“The ball is now in their court,” she told a weekly news conference.

Ardern said New Zealand, which is a member of the Five Eyes intelligence sharing network that includes the United Kingdom and the United States, would conduct its own assessment.

“I would expect the GCSB to apply with our legislation and our own security assessments. It is fair to say Five Eyes, of course, share information but we make our own independent decisions,” she said.

Huawei New Zealand did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Spark said it was in discussions with GCSB officials.

“We are working through what possible mitigations we might be able to provide to address the concerns raised by the GCSB and have not yet made any decision on whether or when we should submit a revised proposal to GCSB,” Spark spokesman Andrew Pirie said in an emailed statement.

The Huawei decision, along with the government’s tougher stance on China’s growing influence in the Pacific, has some politicians and foreign policy analysts worried about potential strained ties with a key trading partner.

Ardern’s planned first visit to Beijing has faced scheduling issues, and China last week postponed a major tourism campaign in New Zealand days before its launch.

Ardern said her government’s relationship with China was strong despite some complex issues.

“Visits are not a measure of the health of a relationship they are only one small part of it,” she said, adding that trade and tourism ties remained strong.
 
It appears that New Zealand has had some second-thoughts on Huawei, after being asked to set an example for the "international community" and "the rest of the world" to ban Huawei equipment. China is by far New Zealand's largest trading partner, and NZ is relying on increasingly more Chinese tourists for revenue. I suppose UK has set a good example then.

A stampede? Hardly. A crack? Feels like one.

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WELLINGTON (Reuters) - New Zealand will independently assess the risk of using China’s Huawei Technologies in 5G networks, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said on Monday after a report suggested that British precautions could be used by other nations.

Meaning that NZ was pulling hot air security concern out of the bottom of there ass to begin with out of blind loyalty the Anglo cause. It's the Anglo Rule of Law.
 
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weig2000

Captain
Meanwhile, in another land of the Five-Eyes, Canadians have found themselves dragged ever deeper into the Huawei trap. Canada actually had a very good relationship with China and the two sides had been discussing a free-trade agreement. That is, until it had to swallow Trump's poison article in the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA) and the arrest of Ms. Meng Wanzhou. The China-Canada relationship is now at its lowest point since the two established formal diplomatic relationship in 1970.

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Terms of investment treaty allow Chinese to sue if government acts on security fears
Janyce McGregor · CBC News · Posted: Feb 17, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: February 17

As the Trudeau government decides whether to join its security and trading partners in banning Huawei Canada from supplying technology to build Canada's 5G wireless network, it risks an expensive lawsuit under the terms of a foreign investor protection agreement signed by its predecessor.

Stephen Harper's Conservative government concluded negotiations on the
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in 2012. At the time, it was seen as a necessary precursor to the comprehensive free trade talks the two countries hoped eventually to explore.

Now, those trade talks are on ice due to
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with Beijing. And the investor protection treaty now threatens to complicate any plans the Liberal government has to keep Huawei out of Canada's high-speed 5G network.

That might explain why Canada is taking so long to make a decision about Huawei — even as the U.S. and other members of the Five Eyes intelligence alliance, as well as major European players like Germany, have moved to shut the company out of their wireless infrastructure, despite warnings about increased costs and rollout delays.

Under Canada's investment agreement with China, Huawei Canada — as an existing investor that already owns assets and has business relationships here — "can bring a claim at any time against Canada, for any kind of regulatory action," said Gus Van Harten, a professor at Osgoode Hall Law School who specializes in the investor-state dispute settlement (ISDS) mechanisms in treaties like this one.

"If you're dealing with a big company in a high-value asset, it can be a very serious deterrent. Unlike other areas of international law ... they can access an extraordinarily powerful remedy, which is an uncapped damages award that includes compensation."

That award could take into account not just a ban's impact on current investments, but also Huawei's reasonable expectation of future earnings from 5G as well, Van Harten said. If Canada blocks Huawei from 5G, taxpayers could face a lawsuit claiming hundreds of millions of dollars — possibly billions.

The most dangerous part of the treaty from Canada's perspective is Article Four, which requires "fair and equitable treatment and full protection and security" for Huawei's investments, Van Harten said.

"It sounds benign," he said, but "those protections have in many cases been interpreted very broadly to require compensation for even general regulatory measures that didn't target a specific investor in any way.

"If Huawei could show that they were operating normally and then, out of the blue, they were simply barred from future operations, I think they'd have a pretty good Article Four claim. [Federal ministers] have to be considering this liability."

Telus seeking compensation
Public Safety Canada, which is leading the federal government's review of the "associated security and economic considerations" of 5G technology, is careful not to comment on specific companies.

But it's an open secret that a Huawei ban is being considered by the Trudeau government. The U.S. Defence Department and various American officials have warned that future relationships are at stake if countries like Canada don't follow its lead.

Recent media reports suggest the White House, which accuses Beijing of cyber-spying, is preparing a broad executive order to bar Chinese telecommunications technology from U.S. networks. It might be an attempt to force concessions in ongoing trade talks, but U.S. carriers have already received the message: shun Huawei equipment.

Canada's Telus and BCE, on the other hand, have relied on Huawei gear for their radio access networks.

Telus CEO Darren Entwistle had a closed-door meeting with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in Vancouver on Monday.


"A decision prohibiting the deployment of Huawei technology, without compensation or other accommodations being made by the government of Canada, could have a material, non-recurring, incremental increase in the cost of Telus's 5G network deployment, and, potentially, the timing," Telus said in its
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.

That report did not say what sort of compensation or accommodation Telus wants.

Last month, as Huawei executives were promoting their technology and defending their security reputation at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Canada's Innovation Minister Navdeep Bains was also at the Swiss resort
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to fund 5G research by the Finnish-owned competitor.

Hiding 'chill'
Van Harten, a sharp critic of the Harper government's treaty, said this could be the first use of the agreement's arbitration measures — but he can't be sure because the agreement allows for more confidentiality than any other ISDS treaty Canada has signed since the North American Free Trade Agreement's Chapter 11 came into force.

The government is not required to disclose anything until it's forced to pay compensation.

Van Harten said that, in his experience, the government won't discuss what ISDS critics call "regulatory chill" — the threat of government decisions being driven by the risk of being sued.

"They are very coy about chill," he said. "They go out of their way to hide chill."


"We will be taking appropriate decisions in due course," said Scott Bardsley, a spokesperson for Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale. "It is premature to speculate on the outcome of the review."

In a separate statement, International Trade Diversification Minister Jim Carr's office said Canada has not received a notice of potential arbitration from Huawei Canada or the Chinese government.

That doesn't mean there haven't been informal and confidential exchanges between Canadian and Chinese officials on the possibility of arbitration. Last month, Chinese Ambassador to Canada Lu Shaye urged Ottawa to "make a wise decision" and suggested "there will be repercussions" if Huawei is banned. He did not specifically mention a lawsuit.

No broad security exemption
Luke Eric Peterson, a Canadian based in California who writes for the Investment Arbitration Reporter, reported Monday on a threat Huawei recently made to sue the Czech government. The Czech Republic's cybersecurity authority asked companies in sensitive sectors to weigh the risks of Chinese technology.

Huawei objected to being deemed a security threat merely because of its country of origin. The Czechs were accused of harming Huawei's reputation in other jurisdictions without real evidence or regard for the steps the company takes to prevent state interference with its technology and equipment.

The bilateral investment treaty in place between the Czech Republic and China does not have a broad security exemption.

Neither does Canada's agreement with China. Like the Czech Republic, Canada probably would not be able to defend itself in this kind of arbitration by citing national security concerns.


Article 33 of Canada's investment agreement with China does exempt from penalty "any actions that [Canada] considers necessary for the protection of its essential security interests," but goes on to define those interests in military terms,
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.

"This exemption is probably too narrow" to permit a Huawei ban justified only by espionage risks, Peterson said.

The onus would be on Canada to prove that Huawei has a relationship with the Chinese military and security services. Based on Huawei's reaction to other spying allegations, Canada could expect a vigorous denial.

"If it's just a suspicion or a precaution, I'm not sure this treaty would allow them to [ban Huawei]," Peterson said.

By comparison, the U.S. insists on broad security exemptions in its treaties and makes them self-judging: if the Americans say something is a security risk, it is, with or without public evidence.

Canada did not negotiate that kind of language with China.

As this article was being prepared for publication, Huawei Canada had not responded to inquiries from CBC News on whether it's considering its options under the investment treaty.
 

Jono

Junior Member
Registered Member
You really have to admire the Americans, even though you know they are hypocrites.
But they are simply a superb world class master at the art of " divide and rule ". In this case, China and Canada.
PM Trudeau despite his good looks is just too young and inexperienced to deal with the American onslaught. He is like a lamb being led to the slaughter house and doesn't have any escape plans.
Poor Canada. Your political elites are a joke compared to the Americans.
 

Yodello

Junior Member
Registered Member
You really have to admire the Americans, even though you know they are hypocrites.
But they are simply a superb world class master at the art of " divide and rule ". In this case, China and Canada.
PM Trudeau despite his good looks is just too young and inexperienced to deal with the American onslaught. He is like a lamb being led to the slaughter house and doesn't have any escape plans.
Poor Canada. Your political elites are a joke compared to the Americans.

Not one bit of sympathy for the Canadians. I hope the Canadian Taxpayers suffer, as they so deserve to.
Btw, why isn't Canada already a part of the United States?
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

Just replace the context of corporation and society and replace it with other countries. The countries dictating human rights were the biggest violators of it and now are preaching to everyone else about human rights. I always hear people demand that corporations from democratic countries should not do business in non-democratic countries like China. Corporations run more like a communist system than a democracy. Yes they romanticized companies like Google with their "Do no wrong" tagline as if they don't have the ability to lie so it must be true. Yet now Google and its social media company peers are under scrutiny for doing many wrongs. There was an article recently where it polled corporations and said the majority supported Trump's tariffs. I mentioned before about Jim Cramer finance fame said he talked to CEO's who said they supported Trump's trade war against China... Are these revelations suppose to be surprising? How easily they can distract how these corporations are the ones outsourcing American jobs to other countries so they can make every penny they can exploiting cheap labor. They want to go back to the good ole days of the East India Company. And look at how the Obama led TPP gave corporations power over member countries own domestic laws and sovereignty. Was it the corporation that romanticized themselves as these neo-conscience CEOs or was it the American people in denial who want to be portrayed living in a utopia so they can brag and look down at others? They're hiding behind human causes so no one can question or challenge them. Their corporations ruling over other countries will do the ethically right thing...
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Via Broadsword a feisty company keep up the fighting spirit Born out of adversity I think Huawei will ride out the present chicanery
Huawei's founder says world can't live without it

AFP Relax19 February 2019
Huawei's founder says world can't live without it

The founder of Chinese telecom giant Huawei has hit back at US efforts to blacklist the company, saying defiantly that the world cannot do without Huawei and its "more advanced" technology.

"There's no way the US can crush us," Ren Zhengfei said in an interview with the BBC.

"The world cannot leave us because we are more advanced."

Ren, 74, also denounced as "politically motivated" the December arrest of his daughter, Huawei Chief Financial Officer Meng Wanzhou, who is accused of violating US sanctions against Iran and faces an extradition hearing in Canada next month.

"We object to this," he said.

"But now that we've gone down this path, we'll let the courts settle it."

The normally media-shy Huawei founder has been forced to step into the limelight in recent months as the company has come under increasing pressure over espionage concerns and the US-led campaign to persuade other countries to ban its technology.

Last year, security concerns prompted Australia to ban Huawei equipment from its future 5G network.

New Zealand has also blocked its largest telecom carrier from using Huawei technology for the next generation network, while the Czech Republic has reportedly excluded it from a 20-million-euro ($22 million) tender to build a tax portal.

US prosecutors are also charging Huawei with stealing trade secrets, saying it offered rewards to employees for stealing technology from other rivals.

Ren shrugged off the growing pressure.

"If the lights go out in the West, the East will still shine," he said. "America doesn't represent the world."


"Even if they persuade more countries not to use us temporarily, we can always downsize and become smaller."

- Pushback -
Signs that US efforts to convince its allies to shun Huawei technology could fall through are also growing.

British intelligence concluded that security risks posed by using Huawei's 5G equipment can be managed, The Financial Times reported on Monday.

"Other nations can make the argument that if the British are confident of mitigation against national security threats then they can also reassure their publics and the US administration that they are acting in a prudent manner to allow their telecommunications service providers to use Chinese components," an unnamed source told the newspaper.

New Zealand is also in talks to minimise the security risks posed by using Huawei equipment in 5G infrastructure instead of excluding it entirely.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said Tuesday that New Zealand's security bureau was discussing Huawei security concerns with Spark, the domestic telecoms carrier that had been barred from using the Chinese firm's equipment last year.

She also added that the company had "never" been ruled out from potentially participating in the country's 5G rollout.
 

weig2000

Captain
A couple of news updates from Europe, the current battlefront of the US vs. Huawei.
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By
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February 19, 2019, 4:13 AM EST
  • Michele Geraci, senior government member, speaks in interview
  • Foreign telecom issue not specific to Huawei, says Geraci
A senior Italian government member has pushed back against U.S. pressure in the global tussle over
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, saying the Chinese networking giant is not a specific concern for the populist coalition.

“People always say Huawei yes or no, the real question should be about foreign equipment manufacturers being allowed to access your network,” Michele Geraci, undersecretary at the Ministry for Economic Development, said in an interview at his Rome office.

“I don’t see Huawei as an issue, for me it’s just one of 25 names of equipment manufacturers that you can choose from, with different prices and different quality,” said Geraci, a professor of finance who spent a decade teaching in Shanghai and was picked for his government job by Deputy Premier Matteo Salvini of the anti-immigration League.
...

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Preliminary decision comes after probe found no evidence the Chinese tech giant could use its equipment to spy on communications

By Bojan Pancevski and Sara Germano Updated Feb. 19, 2019 11:20 a.m. ET

BERLIN—The German government is leaning toward letting Huawei Technologies Co. participate in building the nation’s high-speed internet infrastructure, several German officials said, the latest sign of ambivalence among U.S. allies over Washington’s push to ostracize the Chinese tech giant as a national security risk.
...

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11 Feb 2019

Eir won’t be joining other European operators in distancing themselves from the Chinese equipment maker.

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today (11 February) confirmed that it will continue to use Huawei radio access equipment in the roll-out of its 4G and 5G networks.

Speaking at the reveal of a
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that will reach 1.4m premises with a network capable of speeds of up to 10Gbps, CEO Carolan Lennon said Eir is sticking with the Chinese equipment maker for its radio access network.

Driven in part by a trade war that is brewing between the US and China as well as the US filing
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citing alleged IP theft, a skirting of the US-led trade ban on Iran and fears about potential spying, European operators such as BT and Vodafone have been halting the use of Huawei equipment in their core networks. It is understood they still use the Chinese company’s equipment in their radio access networks.

Last November Eir revealed a €150m plan to deliver 4G connectivity to 99pc geographic coverage. The two-year project will transform the entire Eir cellular network, expanding it by hundreds of additional sites. Huawei will provide the radio access network equipment while Swedish telecoms equipment player Ericsson will deploy the core network linked by fibre.
...
 

chlosy

Junior Member
Registered Member
Meanwhile, in another land of the Five-Eyes, Canadians have found themselves dragged ever deeper into the Huawei trap. Canada actually had a very good relationship with China and the two sides had been discussing a free-trade agreement. That is, until it had to swallow Trump's poison article in the US-Mexico-Canada Agreement (USMCA) and the arrest of Ms. Meng Wanzhou. The China-Canada relationship is now at its lowest point since the two established formal diplomatic relationship in 1970.

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.
Article Four, which requires "fair and equitable treatment and full protection and security"

Funny and ironic. Am sure that Harper/Canada had that clause inserted to protect Canadian companies in China more than protecting Chinese companies in Canada. What a big difference a few years make.
 
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