Chinese Economics Thread

KlRc80

Junior Member
Registered Member
continued..

During the national finance work conference last year, the General Secretary and the Premier strongly criticized the Chinese financial sector with a pile of literary-sounding polemics, saying that they were entertaining themselves without the slightest consideration for reality, and that the financial sector was in chaos and was a horrible sight to behold.

Apart from this financial arbitrage, what do most businesses do with their money? Forty percent of it goes to the stock market, speculation, and buying stocks of financial companies, but not investment into primary business. Then can this be considered a good situation for listed businesses? You can say goodbye to the equity pledges, game over. As an economist, I am opposed to the government bailing out the market. If stock pledges collapse, let it be: what’s the point in bailing them out? What are you doing using stock pledges for other purposes anyway? What did you do with the loans you get from stock pledges?

I’m acquainted with many bosses of listed companies. Frankly speaking, a large part of their equity pledge funds did not go into their primary business, but used on speculation. They have many tricks. They buy financial products; they buy housing. The government said listed companies have spent 1-2 trillions on speculative real estate. Basically China’s economy is all built on speculation, and everything is over leveraged.

Starting in 2009, China embarked on this path of no return. The leverage ratio has soared sharply. Our current leverage ratio is three times that of the United States and twice that of Japan. The debt ratio of non-financial companies is the highest in the world, not to mention real estate.

Having shared all this data with you, shouldn’t we be arriving at a conclusion now?

“The swallows come back every three years.” [This is a
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to the three years of RMB growth between 2005 and 2008.] Now they are back again. The economic decline has created a lot of pressure, so now the government brings back its old set of tricks: relaxed currency regulations, aggressive monetary policies, relaxed financial policies, and aggressive capital financing policy.

But now I want to ask a question. Everyone in the audience is an alumnae of Renda business school and capable of thinking independently, so give it some thought: Will these policies work? Can they solve China’s fundamental problems? It’s not that our currency regulation this year was not relaxed enough—we released 400 billion yuan in liquidity, 2.3 trillion yuan in hedging or medium-term lending facilities. 2.3 trillion times the money multiplier is about a dozen or so trillion.

Three monetary policy “arrows” have been fired, also known as “Bank Chief Yi’s three arrows.” The first is loans, the second is issuing debts, the third is to solve the problem of stock pledges. Even more mind-blowing was the
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.” [Guo Shuqing (郭树清), CCP committee secretary of the People’s Bank of China and chairman of the China Banking and Insurance Regulatory Commission, said in November that banks’ lending to private companies need to meet the “125 Target,” which means that in new corporate loans, the big banks should issue no less than one-third of the loans to private firms, medium and small banks should issue no less than two-third of the loans to private firms, and in three years the goal is for banks to lend no less than 50 percent of its loans to private enterprises among their loans to new companies.]

We recently went to the Pearl River Delta and some other regions to conduct field research, and locals told us that the local officials invited the bank chiefs over to meetings and told them which banks to turn to for loans. What is this nonsense?

So we need to reflect on our current problems: can these policies of ours solve the deeper issues?

As for the debt-for-equity swap, the capital market has issued many policies but I don’t see any of them will really be useful. It’s been another two months since October 19, have they been effective? So we have to ask ourselves: What has really gone wrong with our economy?

My own reflection has reached its conclusion: The problem with the Chinese economy is no longer speed or quantity, but quality.

The official report of the 19th Party Congress is an excellent report. So is the report of the Third Plenum of the 18th Party Congress. All of these major decisions were beautifully written and made all the right points. Sadly, they have not been followed through. The structural problems we face as a country, the “Six Big Imbalances,” are not sufficiently addressed. Think about it, entrepreneurs and alumni of Renda business school in the audience, can any radical credit policy or monetary easing solve these problems?

Moreover, these credit and monetary policies can only make short-term adjustments that are incapable of fundamentally solving the “imbalances” I mentioned earlier. We are still trapped within the box of the old policy and the old way of thinking. The key to whether transformation will be successful is the vitality of private enterprises—that is, whether policy can stimulate corporate innovation.

We have been making a game of credit and monetary tools for so many years. Isn’t this the reason we are saddled with so many troubles today? Speculation has driven housing prices sky-high.

The problems that private business actually faces are not difficulties in financing. What is it then? They are afraid of unstable policy and the government not keeping its word.

The leader of the State Council said it clearly in a meeting of the Standing Committee: in China, the government is what can be least trusted. Therefore, in order to solve the debt problem, first, the government has to pay back debts it owes businesses, the state-owned enterprises have to pay back debts they owe private enterprises, and large private enterprises have to pay back debts they owe smaller ones. The three costs keep going up [production cost, transnational cost, and systematic cost], therefore tax cut and fee reduction is the primary appeal.

My basic assessment of the overall issue is that these short-term monetary credit schemes are wholly incapable of solving the problem. For the Chinese economy to continue growing in a truly stable fashion, and extricate itself from its present quagmire, it must implement the following three essential reforms: tax system, reform in the political structure, and reform in state governance.

How to reduce taxes and fees? The structure of the government must be streamlined by cutting large numbers of staff. Personnel must be let go and expenditures have to drop, which means that structural reforms have to be carried out.

Professor Zhou Qiren (周其仁) of Peking University is someone I respect and admire deeply. All these years, he has been saying: what is China’s biggest problem? The costs of societal administration are too high.

Then there are the matters of governmental reform and reforms in the structure of state governance. Of course, there’s also reform of academia and research.

I hear that the day after tomorrow, there’s going to be a grand conference to mark the 40th anniversary of the “reform and opening up.” I sincerely hope that we’ll hear something about further deepening of reforms at that conference. Let’s wait and see if any real progress can be made on these reforms.

If this doesn’t happen, let me conclude on these words: the Chinese economy is going to be in for long-term and very difficult times.
 
now I read
China approves 14 new pension target funds
Xinhua| 2019-01-06 20:12:51
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China has approved the country's third group of pension target funds, allowing 14 more such funds to play a bigger role in meeting the retirement planning needs of an aging population.

E-Fund Management, an asset management company based in Guangzhou, obtained approvals for issuing two more such funds while 13 other fund management firms including China Southern Asset Management and China Asset Management were authorized to issue one more each, according to the China Securities Regulatory Commission.

The new round of approval brought the number of authorized pension target funds to 40.

Pension target funds are mutual funds that encourage long-term holding by investors, adopt mature asset allocation strategies and control the risk of volatility to seek long-term, stable returns on retirement savings.

Currently, China's retirement plans mostly rely on state- and corporate-sponsored programs. The country is looking to develop pension target funds, part of individual retirement plans, to complement the system amid pressure from the aging society.

The number of people aged 60 or above reached 241 million in China at the end of 2017, accounting for 17.3 percent of the total population. The number is expected to peak at 487 million in 2050, accounting for a third of the total population, according to the Office of the National Working Commission on Aging.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
A Great Shift Unseen Over the Last Forty Years

Xiang Songzuo, December 28, 2018


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Blah blah blah

That piece reads like the kind of stream-of-consciousness-ramblings of some late night forum posting, and falls far short of the intellectual standards one would expect from any self-respecting economist.

The deliberate misrepresention of newspaper headlines; repeated use of hearsay as the basis for key points; using unreliable and unpublished data sources as if they are undisputed facts; and inconsistent logic are just a few of the most obvious red flags.

But the most ridiculous part was the prominent section on how China should ‘reflect’ on what it did ‘wrong’ with regards to the US trade war is particularly perplexing.

China never sort out the trade war, and has been doing everything it can be avoid it. So short of total capitulation and giving in to Trump’s ridiculous demands, it’s hard to see what China could have done differently about the trade war.

A quick look at this China change website makes these inconsistencies far more understandable, since all of its articles are blatantly anti-China, with not a single paid advert to be seen, not even a begging donations message or link.

So, where does rabidly anti-China political publications with zero revenue get the money to stay afloat? :rolleyes:

With that in mind, it’s easy to see that the only selection criteria for being featured on that site is how anti-China the content is.

It doesn’t matter if what is being said is true or makes sense, it just matters that it is anti-China. The more rabidly so, the better.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Yup it is a hack job for sure No data as you say just hearsay No incoherent arguments. As I said many Chinese academic are worshiping west at their altar. They can go wrong only China is wrong China does not want this trade and repeated said so They bent their back backward making conciliatory gesture again and again What else do you want complete capitulation?

Look like young intellectual going over his head DISMISS
 

KlRc80

Junior Member
Registered Member
The deliberate misrepresention of newspaper headlines; repeated use of hearsay as the basis for key points; using unreliable and unpublished data sources as if they are undisputed facts; and inconsistent logic are just a few of the most obvious red flags.

May I know which parts do you find inconsistent logics?

But the most ridiculous part was the prominent section on how China should ‘reflect’ on what it did ‘wrong’ with regards to the US trade war is particularly perplexing.

China never sort out the trade war, and has been doing everything it can be avoid it. So short of total capitulation and giving in to Trump’s ridiculous demands, it’s hard to see what China could have done differently about the trade war.

The message of what was written is mainly criticism on the current strategy by the government at this 40 years crossroads, though no solutions were offered.

Trade war was only discussed in several paragraphs and even then it was all about 'the government misjudged the seriousness of the situation'. Initial reactions was 'no big deal or the US won't dare start it'. Thus the criticism that the situation was misjudged, which was true. Though I agree it isn't easy to say what or how it could have been handled better.

A quick look at this China change website makes these inconsistencies far more understandable, since all of its articles are blatantly anti-China, with not a single paid advert to be seen, not even a begging donations message or link.

So, where does rabidly anti-China political publications with zero revenue get the money to stay afloat? :rolleyes:

With that in mind, it’s easy to see that the only selection criteria for being featured on that site is how anti-China the content is.

It doesn’t matter if what is being said is true or makes sense, it just matters that it is anti-China. The more rabidly so, the better.

This is the first time I have come across this website actually. But the reason I posted this article is because I think the message that China is at a crossroads now 40 years after Deng Xiaoping started the reforms and the argument that current strategy must change is something I find agreeable to.

As to anti-China sentiment, this is a speech by an economics lecturer given to CEOs of private companies within a university's grounds. It is full of criticisms of the government's policies and points out things that I find are true and interesting.

If you did read through the full article and came to the the conclusion that it's anti-China rather than constructive criticism then I'm surprised.

I think we should care more about the arguments of the content rather than the website that posted the translated transcript.

P. S. The article at the end did request for donations.
 
now I read
Beijing's new tax, fees reductions reach 40 bln yuan in 2018
Xinhua| 2019-01-06 20:48:01
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Beijing's new tax and fees reductions reached about 40 billion yuan (about 5.8 billion U.S. dollars) in 2018, according to statistics released by the city's finance bureau on Sunday.

The city's general public budget revenue was 578.59 billion yuan last year, up 6.5 percent, according to the bureau.

Beijing has provided extra financial and policy support for its private businesses, including tax reductions, government procurement, funds, public-private partnership (PPP), guarantees and interest subsidies.

For example, 109 PPP projects have been included in a management system of the country's Ministry of Finance, with a total investment of 255.35 billion yuan. Funds invested by the municipal government have attracted 201.3 billion yuan of public capital last year.

As Beijing continues its financial reform, it also attaches great importance to risk control and financial security by improving its management of government debt and increasing public oversight of its annual budget.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
May I know which parts do you find inconsistent logics?

I do not have the time to waste on a detailed blow-by-blow, but just a few obvious ones off the top of my head:

-the article lists all the problems with the Chinese stock market, many of which I actually agree with, but then goes on to state that the stock market is a good indicator for the real economy, which is the basis for arguing that the real Chinese economy is in trouble because of how poorly the Chinesr stock markets have performed.

So all the shit he just talked about the Chinese stock market doesn’t matter suddenly?

Also, his very own quote states that the stock market can be an indicator for real economic growth in the long term. Yet he is extrapolating problems from just one bad stock market year.

-one of the core support for his belief that the Chinese real economy is in trouble is reduced private investment.

Yet again he disregards his own rants about how Chinese companies are investing their profits poorly and engaging in speculation rather than sound investments.

A person like him should not be unaware of China’s crack down on precisely that kind of speculative investments, with a key tool the tightening of lending, which will go a long way to accounting for the steep decline in domestic private investment.

It is also incredibly odd and inconsistent for him to give so much weight to the fall of domestic Chinese private investment, yet effectively dismiss the implications of on target foreign direct investment with a single brief mention and zero analysis.

Are we to believe he thinks private Chinese investors make more sound investment decisions than foreigners given all the grief he just gave them for their poor speculative investment decisions?

His obsession with the Chinese stock market makes me more than a little suspicious the real cause and reason for this rambling speach might not be related to his own losses this year.

Trade war was only discussed in several paragraphs and even then it was all about 'the government misjudged the seriousness of the situation'. Initial reactions was 'no big deal or the US won't dare start it'. Thus the criticism that the situation was misjudged, which was true. Though I agree it isn't easy to say what or how it could have been handled better.

Funny, I don’t recall such Chinese government or media. The Chinese government and official media have always stressed the massive costs of a trade war to all concerned.

What they have said consistently is that there will only be losers from a trade war, and that they US will hurt its own economy as much as it hurts China’s with the trade war.

It was always Trump and sections of the US media who have been making light of the trade war and how it would be so easy for the US to win.

As to anti-China sentiment, this is a speech by an economics lecturer given to CEOs of private companies within a university's grounds. It is full of criticisms of the government's policies and points out things that I find are true and interesting.

If you did read through the full article and came to the the conclusion that it's anti-China rather than constructive criticism then I'm surprised.

I think we should care more about the arguments of the content rather than the website that posted the translated transcript.

P. S. The article at the end did request for donations.

So other than bad mouthing everything China has been doing, precisely what constructive advice has he offered on how China should go about addressing these problems and issues?

The best lies are ones cloaked in truth.

While he has certainly made some correct observations about problems within the Chinese economy, many of which I have mentioned over the years myself on this very forum, the conclusions he draws from those issues do not follow rational, objective paths, and is typical of someone looking for reasons to justify his existing pre-conceived views rather than drawing logical conclusions based solely on the facts presented.

This coupled with his utter lack of any meaningful suggested remedies makes his analysis worthless, and his motivation highly suspect.

Someone who truly cared about the wellbeing of the Chinese economy would have devoted the lion share of his time and energy into thinking up ways to try and resolve the many issues and problems identify. But the entirety of that speach was dedicated to ranting and raving about how bad things are going wrong in China. How is that constructive in the least?

I highly suspect that the main reason he did not offer any remidies is because he secretly believe that following India’s footsteps to wholeheartedly embracing what the west preaches (but do not really practice themselves) about free markets (for western firms to dominate), rule of law (so western corporations can engage in lawfare to bypass Chinese state regulations, as American firms have done to those countries foolish enough to sign up to clauses in notorious free trade agreements); freedom of the press (for western media propaganda to be widely disseminated in China) and democracy (state capture via aforementioned free media access).

Sadly this is a rather too common problem among Chinese intellectuals who spend too much of their time with their noses in books and watching Hollywood productions about how amazing the western system is without much real life experience of how the world actual works.
 

RedMercury

Junior Member
That chinachange article was completely inappropriate for this forum. Such blatant anti-Chinese propaganda and obvious political trolling has no place here. The poster does not deserve shame, but rather condemnation in the strongest terms. That was a disgusting and despicable piece of tripe and not worthy of reading nor refutation. If such a speaker gave such a talk, he should be immediately investigated for foreign influence and funding.
 
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