09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

It looks like this missiles can reach US from the south chinese sea.

Now, in the past years China made the islands with airstrips on the SC sea, now there are two (maybe one more) aircraft carrier there .

It looks like the carriers are not part of a blue water navy, but rather part of the bastion to protect the SSBNs.

Means in 5 years time China will poses a credible deterrent triad.

Anlsvrthng said:

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It looks like this missiles can reach US from the south chinese sea.

Now, in the past years China made the islands with airstrips on the SC sea, now there are two (maybe one more) aircraft carrier there .

It looks like the carriers are not part of a blue water navy, but rather part of the bastion to protect the SSBNs.

Means in 5 years time China will poses a credible deterrent triad.

Click to expand...

Doesn't the JL-2A already give China a credible deterrent from the sea?

Figaro said:

Doesn't the JL-2A already give China a credible deterrent from the sea?

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Without being capable to protect the submarines not.

You are right, partially, it can reach only the eastern coast.
But still ,the carriers are part of the bastion, to protect the submarines.
KL-3 can reach all USA, and can have dummy warheads and enough fuel in the bus to do interceptor evasion.

Figaro said:

Doesn't the JL-2A already give China a credible deterrent from the sea?

Click to expand...

There is no credible evidence that a JL-2A exists.

Anlsvrthng said:

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It looks like this missiles can reach US from the south chinese sea.

Now, in the past years China made the islands with airstrips on the SC sea, now there are two (maybe one more) aircraft carrier there .

It looks like the carriers are not part of a blue water navy, but rather part of the bastion to protect the SSBNs.

Means in 5 years time China will poses a credible deterrent triad.

Click to expand...

The 001 classes are more optimal as ASW carriers, like the Japanese carriers but much larger. IMO that doesn’t tell us a lot about it’s role. It can both be a blue water ASW escort for other ships, aggressive submarine hunter as part of a battlegroup or defender of PLAN submarines.

I think the SSBN program is only for tech demonstration/to keep technology alive. The main arm of the nuclear forces is the early warning satellites, ABM networks and advanced bases & bunkers.

The point of having more sea based nukes is not very apparent to me.

The triad concept is an early Cold War invention when land based missiles had pathetic range and took hours to prepare, so you needed SSBN in case those were destroyed and you needed jump jets with nuclear bombs in case the SSBN were destroyed.

Most important part is having a credible first and second strike ability, which the base network already provides in spades. The utility of having a huge fleet of sea based nukes pales to the utility of having a huge arsenal of midcourse interceptors.

Biscuits said:

The 001 classes are more optimal as ASW carriers, like the Japanese carriers but much larger. IMO that doesn’t tell us a lot about it’s role. It can both be a blue water ASW escort for other ships, aggressive submarine hunter as part of a battlegroup or defender of PLAN submarines.

I think the SSBN program is only for tech demonstration/to keep technology alive. The main arm of the nuclear forces is the early warning satellites, ABM networks and advanced bases & bunkers.

The point of having more sea based nukes is not very apparent to me.

The triad concept is an early Cold War invention when land based missiles had pathetic range and took hours to prepare, so you needed SSBN in case those were destroyed and you needed jump jets with nuclear bombs in case the SSBN were destroyed.

Most important part is having a credible first and second strike ability, which the base network already provides in spades. The utility of having a huge fleet of sea based nukes pales to the utility of having a huge arsenal of midcourse interceptors.

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China spent more money for SSBNs and SLBMs than for carriers.
The carriers can be considered as universal assets, but considering the investment SC sea bases it is more likely (at least at the moment) those are part of the protection bastion of SSBNs.

The land based assets are more suspicious for cruise missile attack than the sea based ones.

Anlsvrthng said:

China spent more money for SSBNs and SLBMs than for carriers.
The carriers can be considered as universal assets, but considering the investment SC sea bases it is more likely (at least at the moment) those are part of the protection bastion of SSBNs.

The land based assets are more suspicious for cruise missile attack than the sea based ones.

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That's half the story regarding the SCS bases, they are also necessary outer defenses against hostile sub and surface forces trying to attack or approach mainland China.

Anlsvrthng said:

China spent more money for SSBNs and SLBMs than for carriers.
The carriers can be considered as universal assets, but considering the investment SC sea bases it is more likely (at least at the moment) those are part of the protection bastion of SSBNs.

The land based assets are more suspicious for cruise missile attack than the sea based ones.

Click to expand...

Source on that? Given that the carrier program has only built 2 smaller carriers, that's believable, but where did you find a breakdown on PLAN spending?

Considering most of them are nuke proof bases deep inside China, not really. If they come under position of attack, the coast needs to be invaded first. At that point, the nukes should already have been launched.

PanAsian said:

That's half the story regarding the SCS bases, they are also necessary outer defenses against hostile sub and surface forces trying to attack or approach mainland China.

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Agree.
Means China have a sea that

Biscuits said:

Source on that? Given that the carrier program has only built 2 smaller carriers, that's believable, but where did you find a breakdown on PLAN spending?

Considering most of them are nuke proof bases deep inside China, not really. If they come under position of attack, the coast needs to be invaded first. At that point, the nukes should already have been launched.

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We talking about surprise nuclear attack with 2500 strategical and few hundred tactical nuke.
Hardened places require one warhead each.

PanAsian said:

That's half the story regarding the SCS bases, they are also necessary outer defenses against hostile sub and surface forces trying to attack or approach mainland China.

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and practically SCS is already owned by the Chinese ... like Du30 said

Really "owning" SCS is a strategically winner for China doesn't matter how you cut it