US now calling China out as a superpower

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I agree that a crisis that clearly and publicly demonstrates the shifting balance of power can act to short-cut the psychological adaptation process, but even then the story is far from complete. For example, while many Americans today are willing to acknowledge China's growing power in the world, they also tend to frame this in terms of particular domestic policy choices that are enabling China, or holding America back or somesuch. The notion that China's rise is something that is fundamentally outside America's control, the idea that the self-described greatest country in the world might be surpassed and that there is nothing that can be done to prevent it, is entirely too bitter a pill for most Americans to swallow at this point. It's that deeper adaptation that will require generations I think, and it's not really about China at all, but about Americans and how they see themselves and their nation.

This is possibly verging too far from the original topic, but I think the question of how nations and civilisations cope psychologically with significant shifts in power is a very interesting one, from the self-assured myths that are created when nations are at the apex of their power (e.g. US, China, UK, Spain, etc.), to the denial and anxiety of nations in decline (e.g. Russia) to the reactions when old certainties are shaken (reform, revolution, fundamentalist religion). Patrick Smith's book "Time No Longer: Americans after the American Century" is a good work in this area.

You can see the difference in views when you look at age.

In 2017, almost half (44%) of Americans over 65 think the US is exceptional.
In comparison, only 1 in 8 people (12%) under 30 think so.

So yes, it will still take some time until the majority of Americans accept the US is not exceptional.


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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
We can also track the progress of the decline in US exceptionalism in the 2011 and 2014 surveys

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China does not qualify as a "superpower" in the way the US does in any aspect at all. Even economically break down the numbers per capita or by efficiency and it's obvious China is nowhere near the US. Militarily just because China can stand up for itself against the US doesn't mean it can rival the US, merely that the US is no longer as dominant overall.

When it comes to alliances and soft power these are determined by how others react to a combination of diktat and appeal. In recent years in terms of deliberate actions the US and China have both been shooting themselves in the foot, with the US doing it relatively more severely. However in terms of organic development the US is ahead by a wide margin but at a crossroads while China is on the uphill climb but from a very low point and not being a particularly quick learner.

Framing China as a "superpower" is a double jeopardy propaganda attack on China: hype up the China threat for those who are fearful and set China up on a pedestal for the fall for those who are prideful.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
China does not qualify as a "superpower" in the way the US does in any aspect at all. Even economically break down the numbers per capita or by efficiency and it's obvious China is nowhere near the US. Militarily just because China can stand up for itself against the US doesn't mean it can rival the US, merely that the US is no longer as dominant overall.

When it comes to alliances and soft power these are determined by how others react to a combination of diktat and appeal. In recent years in terms of deliberate actions the US and China have both been shooting themselves in the foot, with the US doing it relatively more severely. However in terms of organic development the US is ahead by a wide margin but at a crossroads while China is on the uphill climb but from a very low point and not being a particularly quick learner.

Framing China as a "superpower" is a double jeopardy propaganda attack on China: hype up the China threat for those who are fearful and set China up on a pedestal for the fall for those who are prideful.

It all depends on definition.

Historically, those nations who can reasonably contend for world domination are called superpowers, NOT just the one dominating right now.

The “definition” used by some where US is the only superpower is not accurate to the original definition.

China can be a superpower and not be as or more powerful than America at the same time. Russia is arguably a superpower as well. Superpowers aren’t equally powerful.

China has a powerful tech sector, largest economy, second largest military, most developed industrial sector, SCO etc. etc. It doesn’t add up to as much as NATO, petrodollar and US raw numerical superiority, but superpower was a status that was historically conferred on the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan and France. China has more claim to being one than any of the previously named.

It’s mostly a debate of semantics.

If you want to convey the US as exceptional, you could create a new title for them. They’re arguably one of the strongest ever relative to their time, not as strong as Mongol Empire or Ming but close to there. Some people call them “hyperpowers”. Superpower has actual historical definition and shouldn’t be misused.
 

weig2000

Captain
China does not qualify as a "superpower" in the way the US does in any aspect at all. Even economically break down the numbers per capita or by efficiency and it's obvious China is nowhere near the US. Militarily just because China can stand up for itself against the US doesn't mean it can rival the US, merely that the US is no longer as dominant overall.

Superpower is more of an aggregate construct than a per capita construct. In that sense, economically China is as powerful as the US in terms of influence and impact in breadth and depth and scope. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, in different parts of the world, but on balance, they're equally matched more or less.

In other dimensions of power and influence, China hasn't reached the level of the US now.
 
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It all depends on definition.

Historically, those nations who can reasonably contend for world domination are called superpowers, NOT just the one dominating right now.

The “definition” used by some where US is the only superpower is not accurate to the original definition.

China can be a superpower and not be as or more powerful than America at the same time. Russia is arguably a superpower as well. Superpowers aren’t equally powerful.

China has a powerful tech sector, largest economy, second largest military, most developed industrial sector, SCO etc. etc. It doesn’t add up to as much as NATO, petrodollar and US raw numerical superiority, but superpower was a status that was historically conferred on the Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan and France. China has more claim to being one than any of the previously named.

It’s mostly a debate of semantics.

If you want to convey the US as exceptional, you could create a new title for them. They’re arguably one of the strongest ever relative to their time, not as strong as Mongol Empire or Ming but close to there. Some people call them “hyperpowers”. Superpower has actual historical definition and shouldn’t be misused.

I would say that China has less claim than any of the historical powers you listed during their prime. China is much more passive and has much less direct and indirect capability than any of those powers in their prime in interventionist foreign policy in the military, political, social, and economic realms.
 
Superpower is more of an aggregate construct than a per capita construct. In that sense, economically China is as powerful as the US in terms of influence and impact in breadth and depth and scope. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses, in different parts of the world, but on balance, they're equally matched more or less.

In other dimensions of power and influence, China hasn't reached the level of the US now.

Per capita power defines aggregate power in many ways. For example a relative per capita lower standard of living or less social mobility results in the society/country being more vulnerable to emigration and labor and/or brain drains. A lower population growth/replacement rate likely results in a declining labor force and may result in a higher burden in the caretaking of elderly. A per capita lower level of education means the society/country may be subject to easier manipulation by propaganda and/or religion etc.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The whole point of these titles are to declare who gets more than the other. It has nothing to do with anything relevant to what the title means. They're excuses or other means to an end. Who establishes the criteria to become a superpower? The US and whatever other ally who thinks themselves a superpower just as long as they recognize the US as their superior and helps in establishing US interests in the world. They fear China because it doesn't follow their rules they think are the universal standard. It's just them trying to establish who gets more and who gets less in order to help allies maintain their power.

Why isn't China a part of the G"7" of nations? The G7 were the most elite countries of the world. They let Russia in. Russian GDP isn't up there with other members. They have military power and international influence unlike some of the other members. Maybe China could get in by increasing their number of nuclear weapons... You look at all the members and you can pick and choose what makes them not deserving to be a member. The only reason China is not in there is because Japan didn't want China to have that honor. There was talk of a G2 but that would be insulting to the rest of the members. Just look at how weak other members were exposed at dealing with Trump. The G20 was only established because they needed a forum to influence China but not give China any sense of importance more than 20 other countries. They didn't dissolve the G7 despite there was a G20. Look at all that bull!

This is in the same category in my argument against the kind of soft power claimed is important and China doesn't have. They use yoga as an example of how India has soft power while China doesn't. The West embraces yoga therefore Indians are liked because it comes from them. The diabolical manipulation to make people believe begging to be liked is some kind of power. The power lies with those that get to decide what is liked. Is the world embracing yoga? Do we see hot yoga studios opening up all over the world? No, it's only in the West. So who has the only opinion deserving to be heard for them to like something to declare someone has soft power?

Why does China need the US to be declared a superpower? One has to have their criteria for superpower status to be accepted by the US or one is following the US's criteria to be accepted. Either case one doesn't have any power if you need someone else's acceptance.
 

hkbc

Junior Member
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter!

Labels are just used to 'market' stuff,

"Axis of Evil" - You are the bad guys
"Trade War" - It's barely a dispute but war gives it gravitas
"Free World" - We live in the nice "free" bit
"Authoritarian Regime" - You live in the horrible under the jack boot bit
"Neo-colonialism" - You know all those crappy things we dreamt up and did to your country back in the day, these guys are going to do the same only nicer!
"War Department" - Sounds harsh let's relabel it "Department of Defence" same thing different packaging

and so on

Is China a superpower? If you take China at it's word with respect to it's foreign policy then they don't really care! If you are a US defence contractor then it's a really nice label to headline your latest marketing campaign to drum up more business and exports, roll on "Cold War 2.0" and back to glory days of spending 5% GNP on "Defence" and all those well paid US jobs!
 
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