Great Fictional World War III book (China & allies VS US & allies)

amorphous

New Member
Re: Great China VS U.S war book

amorphous, thanks for the translation. I actually believe our hopes and dreams for the future are similar in nature.

I believe China will change...it is a matter of time...and it is also a matter of how. My own hope is that the Chinese people will throw off the current totalitarian government and adopt a more representative, republican form of government...and I believe that is happening by degrees.

I also pray that this can occur as it did in most of the East Block countries, without major bloodshed. Communist governments have a horrific track record in this regard, but my hope and prayer is that ultimately it will occur peacefully.

Thanks for your hopes, which somewhat coinside with mine. I also hope the force grows from within. I frequent some of the Chinese forums, which are subjected to sensorship still. There I can see people are educating themselves the power of media and free (not complete yet) speech.

Have a nice week.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Great China VS U.S war book

I frequent some of the Chinese forums, which are subjected to sensorship still. There I can see people are educating themselves the power of media and free (not complete yet) speech.

Have a nice week.
Thank you. You do the same.

And I mean the following with all the sincereity and honesty in my heart and soul...

May God in Heaven bless and keep you and all those involved in the effort to increase the power of free speech and liberty within your nation, a true liberty bounded by the fundamental moral values, principles, and constraint of the people...because in the end, liberty can be no stronger and no more enlightening than the people themselves.

May your efforts toward that end be rewarded with success...and may the cost that it will undoubtedly generate be something Heaven makes light upon your shoulders, no matter how severe those opposed to that liberty may try to mete it out.
 

kevin JJW

Banned Idiot
Re: Great China VS U.S war book

Just a thought and a questionAdepitus.

Since a lot of talk is going on on this forum and elsewhere surrounding the Chinese carrier design (both Varyag and future carries), what did you think of the design put forward in the Dragon's Fury Series for transforming container ship design into modular designs for military purposes, particularly the carrier design?

[qimg]http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/PLAN-SeaControl-X-Concept.jpg[/qimg]

I like idea of container ship as carrier but give me 6,000t to 15,000T light carrier armor with STOVL Aircraft like F35 and Yak-141 or Jianjiji-16.:)
PS
"The fourth generation supersonic medium : F-16 : a vertical short take-off and landing F-16 fighter, developed by 4611. Jacques -141 aircraft developed from the Russian aircraft. Using stealth aircraft design with transonic, supersonic cruise capability. OTH can simultaneously attack multiple targets, the enforceability of the land, sea, and ground to a variety of tasks. WS-17 cruise the main engine of a plane, the aircraft will be primarily naval aviation equipment. equipment for the Navy's Amphibious Assault Ship Program or stationed Nansha and Xisha Islands airport, I support Navy and Marine operations
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Troika

Junior Member
Jeff, I have to say I have find your distinction between the Chinese government and her people narrow and somewhat artificial.

There is no hard line. The CCP has more than sixty million members, and unlike the old days, no one man or small group of men can be said to effectively control China's decision-making processes. The lines between central power and autonomy is also quite blurred, and increasingly groups not of the government gain influence. China is no Stalinist totalitarianism today.

But let us stay with the focus on the Chinese government. Please note that even in the shrillest years of the Cultural Revolution, China was never this aggressive. In entire history of PRC they exhibited no aggression and territorial ambition even remotely resembling that which is described in the book. And amorphous' point may thus summarized - the Chinese leadership has never exhibited anything this stupid, either. Most observers agree that the primary CCP aim is to stay in power, and one does not stay in power by initiating a war that one obviously has no chance of winning.

Regarding representative government... I think governing well should be the priority, not governing democratically (the only reason why democracy should even be favored is that history has shown it to be the government form, on balance, most likely to bring good governance). This is true for all nations, but especially so for China, where the challenges are great and the stakes greater. I point no further than Russia, where adoption of representative government was not an obvious improvement in many ways. A democracy is only as good as its institutions and, of course, those it represents. Democracy works better in Boston than it does in New Orleans; in Novosibirsk than it does in Moscow.

Chinese comrades' concerns about this is also obvious. No people will like being painted as retardedly aggressive (which they will have to be to invade Russia alone, nevermind the mad scheme they embarked on in the book, and yes, the Imperial Japanese were retardedly aggressive). And obviously they will have concerns about whether there are many Americans who view them as such. I don't suppose it is much comfort to be told that it is merely a technothriller, but that cannot be helped, I suppose, you do have to have a villain in such a work.

Ultimately, it seems to me your work, beyond the technothriller aspects of it (which I enjoyed, though I find some of the protectionist sentiments expressed somewhat alarming), was more a parable for Americans than for us the rest of the world, and perhaps we should really read it as such.

amorphous, thanks for the translation. I actually believe our hopes and dreams for the future are similar in nature.

I believe China will change...it is a matter of time...and it is also a matter of how. My own hope is that the Chinese people will throw off the current totalitarian government and adopt a more representative, republican form of government...and I believe that is happening by degrees.

I also pray that this can occur as it did in most of the East Block countries, without major bloodshed. Communist governments have a horrific track record in this regard, but my hope and prayer is that ultimately it will occur peacefully.

Incidentally Jeff, I do not wish to nitpick, but this doesn't make sense to me. You firstly said you hope China can pull off a peaceful transition, like in the Warsaw Pack and former Soviet states, and then you say that communist governments have a horribly track record... so what communist governments do you have in mind, exactly? There were a few allegedly communist African states where regime change was accompanied by bloodshed - Ethiopia, and in Europe, Yugoslavia and to much lesser extent Romania, but that's pretty much about it. So who set the track record?
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Great China VS U.S war book

Jeff, I have to say I have find your distinction between the Chinese government and her people narrow and somewhat artificial.
Sorry you feel that way. I do not trust or support communist governments. I can say and believe that, while still having empathy and trust and hope in the people that they govern. If that is narrow or artificial to you, I cannot help it...it is however a sincere statement of the way I feel and I can certainly tell you that it is not artificial.


There is no hard line. The CCP has more than sixty million members, and unlike the old days, no one man or small group of men can be said to effectively control China's decision-making processes. The lines between central power and autonomy is also quite blurred, and increasingly groups not of the government gain influence. China is no Stalinist totalitarianism today.
The very idea that 60 million people in one party, the only "official" party, control the lives of 1.1 billion others makes the point for me.

But let us stay with the focus on the Chinese government. Please note that even in the shrillest years of the Cultural Revolution, China was never this aggressive. In entire history of PRC they exhibited no aggression and territorial ambition even remotely resembling that which is described in the book.
The book is fiction...but to your point, both Hitler and Tojo initiated wars that they arguably had no hope of winning. Though the book is fiction, stranger things have happened in real life.

A democracy is only as good as its institutions and, of course, those it represents.
We agree 100% on this, as I pointed out in one of my last posts.

Ultimately, it seems to me your work, beyond the technothriller aspects of it (which I enjoyed, though I find some of the protectionist sentiments expressed somewhat alarming), was more a parable for Americans than for us the rest of the world, and perhaps we should really read it as such.
The technological part was a major portion of the book, and my enjoyment in writing the book...I sincerely am glad that you enjoyed that portion of the book. The rest has to be judged, enjoyed, disliked, etc. like any other military techno-thriller fiction, by the people who read it. I have no expectation that anything close to 100% of the people who read it will think my work is great.

Incidentally Jeff, I do not wish to nitpick, but this doesn't make sense to me. You firstly said you hope China can pull off a peaceful transition, like in the Warsaw Pack and former Soviet states, and then you say that communist governments have a horribly track record... so what communist governments do you have in mind, exactly? There were a few allegedly communist African states where regime change was accompanied by bloodshed - Ethiopia, and in Europe, Yugoslavia and to much lesser extent Romania, but that's pretty much about it. So who set the track record?
I go back to my first comment. In terms of the coming to power and for those attempting to bring about change from within, I stand by my point...Communists governments do have historically a terrible track record. The change in Eastern Europe is a modern and very hopeful alternative and departure. I pray that something like that will occur in China and that the people, as I have said, will establish a republican based, representative government (not a pure democracy) based on and constrained by fundmanetal moral values and principles that the people as a whole themselves hold true to.

Having said all of this, and content that this represents my feelings on the matter...in the future I will restrict my comments to techological or strategy comments about the book. It was not, and is not, my intent to get into contentions about politics or political systems...which these discussions can very easily lead to.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Great China VS U.S war book

I like idea of container ship as carrier but give me 6,000t to 15,000T light carrier armor with STOVL Aircraft like F35 and Yak-141 or Jianjiji-16.:)
The modification process for these carriers (fictionally, in the book) would add kevlar and other light armor to the critical spaces...and balance out from a balast standpoint so the carriers would be very sea worthy for air operations. I do not believe you can get the type of power projection and the size and composition of air wing I invisioned with these carriers, into a 6-15,000 ton platform.
 

Dongfeng

Junior Member
VIP Professional
Re: Great China VS U.S war book

Sorry, I certainly cannot read or understand that post...is there anyone else reading this thread that is able to translate Chinese writing? Perhaps tphuang or someone else?

It says: If this is how Americans see China, it is terrible. We thank god that Americans have yet reached China, and they think that Chinese is interested in invading them! It is a little bit of persecution maniac. If a considerable amount of Americans think it that way, it would a disaster for China.

By the way, to amorphous: please try to use English in this forum so that everyone could understand you:)
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Great China VS U.S war book

It says: If this is how Americans see China, it is terrible. We thank god that Americans have yet reached China, and they think that Chinese is interested in invading them! It is a little bit of persecution maniac. If a considerable amount of Americans think it that way, it would a disaster for China.

By the way, to amorphous: please try to use English in this forum so that everyone could understand you:)
Thanks. amorphous ultimately translated it for me and we had a good discussion in the posts above regarding the same, and I believe came to some good understandings regarding what we both really think.

I am going to limit myself to discussions regarding the technical and strategic aspects of this novel as folks ask those questions and at least defer any political idscussion to PMs.
 

Scratch

Captain
Re: Great China VS U.S war book

I finished "Dragon's Fury" just over a week ago. Thanks Jeff for the free download. Since my english is not all that good it took me a little bit longer to go through it, and I probably did not understand everything in full detail. (especially when it comes to technical things like the Ta Shih or HRS :) )
Nonetheless the technical/military aspects where pretty interesting to read.

Now, aren't those catapults on the Beijings a bit short? There are no lengths indications in the illustration, but to me they seem at least no longer than perhaps those on US CVNs. Additionally the aircraft don't take off along the longitudinal axis of the ship, but a bit off to the side, meaning the wind from the ships forward movement can't be exploited 100%.
And I could imagine the island at the middle aft is somewhat bothering to pilots in the final approach.

There was confusion with the timeline to me. At the beginning the Shi Lang was seen for the second time short before the Olympics in 2008. But then your story seems to start with year one in Nov. 2004. Was that actually meant that way, and if yes would the Olympics be held at the hight of the conflict?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Re: Great China VS U.S war book

I finished "Dragon's Fury" just over a week ago. Thanks Jeff for the free download. Since my english is not all that good it took me a little bit longer to go through it, and I probably did not understand everything in full detail. (especially when it comes to technical things like the Ta Shih or HRS :) )
Nonetheless the technical/military aspects where pretty interesting to read.
Thanks. A lot of my own enjoyment and interest in writing the book was to examine and write about those technological issues.

At the beginning the Shi Lang was seen for the second time short before the Olympics in 2008. But then your story seems to start with year one in Nov. 2004. Was that actually meant that way, and if yes would the Olympics be held at the hight of the conflict?
The final version of the book has the conflict starting sometime well after the 2008 Olympics. There are some flash backs in the time line to 2004 and earlier. Also, there were some typos and errors (sorry) in the early "new" editions where most dates were removed so the book does not get "dated" where dates were left in from the orginal, 5-book series which was written to have the conflict actually start in 2006. That became dated so I re-wrote the entire thing to remove reference to specific dates for the war, except to showcase the Shi Lang during the Olympics with the warfare starting after a fictional American presidency election sometime thereafter.

If you download a more recent copy, you will find those errors have all been corrected, both in the ebook and the printed version.
 
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