Trade War with China

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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
this goes to the heart of the trade tension. the US sees China developing its own high tech as a threat, it demands China to curtail it.

no transfer of tech, and development of your own not allowed, they want China to be the largest banana republic on earth. it's so blatant and brazen.
I would say pathetic is more accurate a description. What a great lack of confidence it requires for someone to reach out to competitors asking them to reduce their efforts... I liken it to a professional boxer desperately asking his opponent to punch lighter throw less punches. How laughable...
 
now I read
China not to devaluate RMB to cope with trade tension with U.S.: central bank governor
Xinhua| 2018-04-11 11:24:49
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China will not devaluate its currency to cope with trade tension with the United States, China's central bank governor Yi Gang said on Wednesday.

The country's exchange rate regime is working smoothly, he added.
 
I was driving listening to talk radio with Dr. Drew's syndicated radio show. Those that don't know who he is he has somewhat a national recognition. So I hear him talk about how there's a story where China is disguising rat meat as chicken which he then says that's a case for tariffs against China. So I get home and do a search for this story and this shows up.

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I also see the news publishing stories on China kidnapping people in the US and the world. That's how they operate. The lies about trade and tariffs are being exposed so they have to resort to other things to get people angry and go along with tariffs or like the New York Times, they just don't like how the US is looking like the bully over China despite how they contribute to the hate Trump campaign. Trump isn't the only one acting chaotic.

Same story here. The Christian free press is selling China and Russia as part of the anti-Christ coalition. I wonder what our Christian friends on this forum thinks when their faith are allowed to spew such paranoiac nonsense. I have meet enough clueless Christian nutcases to know that the religious right will be indoctrinated and yet you will not hear any peep or condemnation from the free press.

I do not see much difference between them and other religious extremist.

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Deep cooperation between Moscow and Beijing was predicted 2,500 years ago. Now it is a reality.
By
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• April 9
It was no exaggeration when Modern Diplomacy wrote on April 8 that “China’s alignment with Russia is a fait accompli.” The assessment came after a week of notable indications showing that the Moscow-Beijing partnership has reached a new peak of strength.

On April 3, Chinese Defense Minister Wei Fenghe traveled to Russia as the special envoy of Paramount Leader Xi Jinping for the
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. The general had two main messages to deliver to the Russian leadership and to the world.

First, Wei said: “I am visiting Russia as a new defense minister of China to show the world a high level of development of our bilateral relations and firm determination of our armed forces to strengthen cooperation.”

He continued: “Second, to support the Russian side in organizing the Moscow International Security Conference, the Chinese side has come to show Americans the close ties between the armed forces of China and Russia, especially in this situation. We’ve come to support you.”

So the messages are that Russia-China military axis is here and it is ready to challenge the existing global order.

On the same day as the conference, Moscow delivered to China the first regiment of
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. The delivery of this game-changing weaponry came with promises that more S-400 systems will be supplied to Beijing soon, as part of a $3 billion deal the two sides signed in 2014.

Two days earlier, news broke that Russia and China plan to merge their satellite tracking systems into one global navigation giant. “Moscow and Beijing will team up to create an integrated navigation system based on Russia’s Global Navigation Satellite System (glonass) and the Chinese BeiDou,” Russian state media reported. If such a merger happens, it will indicate a level of mutual trust between these two nations that is unusual and noteworthy.

These recent developments are only the latest in a decade and a half of
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. The relationship is so robust, it could be called an alliance in every way except officially. “Although they never forge formal alliance in the classical terms,” Modern Diplomacy wrote, “the two countries have actually established strategic partnership covering all of the essential features as allies.”

From Contenders to Comrades
Part of what makes the rapidly deepening Russia-China partnership so newsworthy is how blatantly it contrasts with their recent history of disagreement. In the 1950s, a dispute erupted between China and what was then the Soviet Union about their shared border. The two also had considerably different views about how to implement communism and how to deal with the capitalist nations.

In 1969, these arguments exploded into war. The clash became so heated it threatened to trigger a nuclear conflict. Neither side pressed the nuclear button, but more than 20 years of distrust and animosity followed.

Even amidst those decades of bitterness between Beijing and Moscow, one analyst repeatedly said that the two would eventually form a partnership that would change the world.

He Was Right
Herbert W. Armstrong first prophesied of a Russia-China axis back in the June-July 1934 issue of the Plain Truth magazine. He wrote: “[T]wo great military powers [will] arise in the last days—one the revival of the Roman Empire … ; the other Russia, with her allies … possibly China or Japan.”

In December 1959, when the friction between Russia and China was severe, Mr. Armstrong’s magazine said that, despite those tensions, the two would soon lay aside their differences and form a partnership. “China’s … constant dream for centuries has been ultimate world conquest! … China knows, however, that in this highly industrialized age she can accomplish this dream only as an ally of Russia. … China is now ready to begin devouring the rest of Asia with Russia’s secret military backing” (Plain Truth, December 1959).

These are a small sampling of the numerous statements Mr. Armstrong and his newsmagazine made from 1934 up until his death in 1986, saying that Russia and China would shift from mutual hatred to close cooperation.

In 1986, Russia-China relations remained deeply strained. But the trend of the last 15 years—including the landmark events of early April 2018—show that Mr. Armstrong’s forecast was accurate.

Viewed Through a Lucid Lens
Mr. Armstrong accurately forecast the Russia-China cooperation that is so undeniable today because his primary intelligence source was Bible prophecy.

The December 1962 Plain Truth revealed some of the specific scriptures that informed Mr. Armstrong’s prophecies regarding Asia:

From time to time, news commentators—in describing the coming catastrophic military struggle for world control—use the biblical expression Armageddon found in Revelation 16:16. But what they do not mention is a striking prophecy about “Armageddon” found in Revelation 16:12. In this verse we read that “the way of the kings of the east” is to be prepared!

A passage in Ezekiel, written some 2,500 years ago, also informed Mr. Armstrong’s accurate forecast. “Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him” (Ezekiel 38:2).

Referring to this passage, Mr. Armstrong wrote in the April 1981 Plain Truth:

There is general agreement among students of prophecy that “Gog” in the land of “Magog” is the vast regions of northern Eurasia extending from the Baltic to the Pacific [modern Russia and China]. “Meshech” is Moscow; “Tubal” is Tobolsk. The Bible margin says “prince of Rosh,” which is Russia.

Ezekiel 38 shows that Russia will be the leading nation in the end-time Asian power bloc, and that China will be in a position of secondary leadership.

In the near term, the Russia-China partnership points to a violent future for the world. But it is also closely connected to the best imaginable news for mankind.

To understand the details of these scriptures and numerous others, and to see how they are being fulfilled by the cooperation between Russia and China that is happening today, read our article “
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.”
 
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now noticed the tweet
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The current status is that there have been no negotiations on trade friction between
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and
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financial officials, said a spokesperson for China's Ministry of Commerce at a press conference

DajPoaJU0AAlm9F.jpg
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Same story here. The Christian free press is selling China and Russia as part of the anti-Christ coalition. I wonder what our Christian friends on this forum thinks when their faith are allowed to spew such paranoiac nonsense. I have meet enough clueless Christian nutcases to know that the religious right will be indoctrinated and yet you will not hear any peep or condemnation from the free press.

I do not see much difference between them and other religious extremist.
Because those Judeo-Christian nut cases still believes that they are "God's chosen children" to rule the world. That's what happen when one don't have a significant 5,000 year history and culture of civilization. You end up buying into the non proven nonsense to make one self as important and legit in world history.
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Because those Judeo-Christian nut cases still believes that they are "God's chosen children" to rule the world. That's what happen when one don't have a significant 5,000 year history and culture of civilization. You end up buying into the non proven nonsense to make one self as important and legit in world history.

'Modern' Russia has seen an Orthodox Christian renaissance, so is pretty 'Christian' I guess just the 'wrong kind' of christianity for the crazies. I suppose it shouldn't be a surprise, the 13 colonies that became those united states were originally settled by 'puritanical zealots' that were considered nut jobs by the Mainstream English in the 16th century, one of the reasons they left was because of "Religious Persecution"!

The notion of a "Chinese/Russian AntiChrist" alliance is just tin foil hat stuff, but I suppose the foil hat crew got round to it as it must get monotonous ranting about muslims, Mexicans, blacks and the right to bear arms. As for some Western Conspiracy and lack of denunciation in the "main stream" press there's enough pages of crazy fake news doing the rounds without having to give oxygen to this nonsense.

With respect to the "Trade War" the whole narrative appears increasingly to be yet another Trump fired diversion from his domestic troubles rather than anything real.

Who'd thought when the president of the US opens his mouth and threatens tariffs the Dow goes down and when chairman of the CCP makes a speech at an International forum it goes back up! We live in crazy times.

Anyway looks like he's moved on to Syria and the Russians now as the next piece of theatre.

To signed off on a Judea-Christian theme to quote Mark Twain “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.”
he was scarily accurate.....
 
now I read
Opinion: Western media should look beneath the 'optics'
2018-04-12 18:46 GMT+8
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Many mainstream Western media outlets are jubilant these days over Chinese President Xi Jinping's pledge to further open up China's economy. They’ve interpreted his remarks to be an overture to Donald Trump’s trade provocations, and a signal in allaying the fears of a trade war.

At the opening ceremony of the Boao Forum for Asia on Tuesday, Xi rolled out a blueprint of China's further reform and opening-up measures, including reinforcing intellectual property protection and lowering tariffs on auto imports. Trump made a swift response on Twitter, thanking Xi for his "kind words on tariffs and automobile barriers... also, his enlightenment on intellectual property and technology transfers." A host of established media have also started to associate these upbeat proclamations with attempts to avert the looming US-China trade war.

In a Wednesday piece entitled "China president’s conciliatory trade gesture raises optimism," the Associated Press expressed the hope that Xi's vow "will ease a trade dispute with Washington." In another article, it stated that China made "possible concessions aimed at defusing a worsening dispute with Washington over trade and technology." And one of the Time magazine's top stories focused on the so-called "trade concession," claiming it was "a conciliatory gesture, though far from surrender." The New York Times commented that the Chinese president "urges dialogues rather than confrontation" when speaking publicly for the first time after "Trump seeks tariffs." More overtly, the Forbes published an opinion piece, "Trump's tariff threats to working on China," in which the contributor directly asserted Xi "has conceded that tariffs on US cars and trucks coming into his country are too high."

These biased reports have not only made headlines across these prestigious US news organizations but even in the European and Asian press. Reuters also associated Xi's vow to open economy with "an attempt to defuse an escalating trade dispute with the United States." The Press Trust of India, the country's largest news agency, said Xi was "apparently addressing the concerns of US President Donald Trump.” Even Nikkei, one of the world's major financial newspapers, had such a headline: "Xi extends olive branch to US with 'open' markets speech."

Yes, stock markets rallied immediately after Xi's keynote speech, but that's no justification for media to cheerfully draw the arbitrary conclusion that Xi made the remarks in a move to ease the roiling trade tensions.

It's a mere coincidence. As early as last October, Xi said in the report to the 19th National Congress of the Communist Party of China that "China will not close its door to the world; we will only become more and more open." In painting the picture for the 2018 economy, leaders at China's Central Economic Work Conference last December reiterated its stance to open wider to the outside world in 2018, which marks the 40th anniversary of China's reform and opening-up policy.

Moreover, China conveyed a more articulate message when Vice Premier Liu He, also director of the Office of the Central Leading Group for Financial and Economic Affairs, revealed in Davos in January the four aspects where China was prepared to open up, including the further opening of financial, manufacturing and service sectors, protection of property rights and expansion of imports.

The recent history shows that Xi's roadmap for further opening up has been prepared for months and is explicitly aimed at boosting China's development and revving up economic globalization. "It really addressed Trump's concerns," said Wang Dan, an analyst with The Economist Intelligence Unit, but it is "unwise for China to commit to anything or give out too much before securing an answer from the US."

Beijing embraces a greater vision with these inspiring decisions, which have nothing to do with Trump's tough trade rhetoric.

China's move in the aforementioned four points, to some extent, caters to the need of its burgeoning middle class. "From our forecast, right now, only 10 percent of the Chinese population can be identified as middle class, that is 132 million. But by 2030, the figure will rise to 35 percent, that is 480 million. The big jump will open more opportunities in the service sector," Wang noted. Therefore, the consumer market will present a rosy picture, and the financial and service industries will be the most promising drivers of the country's economic growth in the next decade.

This will not only improve the well-being of the staggeringly large Chinese population but also create jobs for other countries through candid cooperation.

We have been used to Trump's wee-hour Twitter storm but have not expected reputable media outlets to make such misinterpretations. As the most crucial part of the Fourth Estate, the press is expected to exert significant influence on society by guiding public opinion in an informed way.

In this case, they should not just analyze Xi's speech but do their due diligence and talk to policymakers from both sides. Their long-standing reputation should hold them to a higher standard of accountability, rather than rush to superficial conclusions.

Look beneath the "optics" and leave the speculation and complacent assertions to Trump's Twitter.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
It seems Trump is desperate to catch a straw to prove he is winning by attributing China's pledge to open further to his pressure. We have seen him "thanking China", as if his pressure made China to open further.

The truth is those new openings are to every country including U.S. but U.S. would have NO privileges than everybody else. The lowered import tariffs and increased quotas are equally applied to every country. These pledges will benefit the world including U.S., but in case of trade war, the promised 25% hike on 50BUSD is a "privileges" that only U.S. enjoys. It seems for one time, Mr Trump sacrificed the interests of US for the good of other countries. Very ironic :D
 

jobjed

Captain
To signed off on a Judea-Christian theme to quote Mark Twain “God created war so that Americans would learn geography.”
he was scarily accurate.....

"God created war so Americans would have a reason to learn geography but they don't because Americans never learn" would be more accurate, I think. I'm willing to bet the Americans who can point to Iraq and Afghanistan on an unlabeled atlas are in the minority.
 

Tse

Junior Member
Registered Member
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Trump’s Trade War Is About Trump, Not China
By
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, April 11, 2018
[...]
According to
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, 67 percent of Democratic voters now support free trade agreements, but only 35 percent of Republicans feel the same way.

Not all Democrats feel that way, of course. As a traditional Democrat from the strong union state of Ohio — one of the few places where union membership
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in 2016 — Sherrod Brown has staked out a claim as one of the more progressive politicians in Congress.
But Ohio is also a state that Donald Trump won by a convincing 8 percent of the vote in 2016. Since the election, Brown has cannily supported the president on certain issues, including the much-vaunted infrastructure plan, which Brown sees as a potential job creator for his state.

Brown has also long opposed trade deals like NAFTA and the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP). No surprise, then, that he immediately embraced Trump’s tariffs. “This welcome action is long overdue for shuttered steel plants across Ohio and steelworkers who live in fear that their jobs will be the next victims of Chinese cheating,” he
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. “If we fail to stand up for steel jobs today, China will come after other jobs up and down the supply chain tomorrow.”


Brown’s support of the new tariffs makes political sense, even if his willingness to partner with an autocratic president is morally dubious.

The political positions of Fareed Zakaria, the prominent CNN and Washington Post pundit, are usually antithetical to Sherrod Brown’s. Zakaria is generally an enthusiast for free trade and globalization. He was a fan of the TPP. He routinely bashes what he calls socialist or quasi-socialist government policies that remind him of what didn’t work in the India of his childhood in the 1970s.

Back in June 2016, Zakaria
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that “it is stunning that serious conservative Republicans who are devoted to free-market ideas are backing Trump, looking the other way and crossing their fingers. The cost of doing so is now clear: Trump will transform the GOP into a protectionist, nationalist party.”

Zakaria is clearly no fan of Trump. And yet, he’s come out in favor of the very tariffs that are central to the Republican Party’s transformation that Zakaria so fears. The reason for Zakaria’s turnabout is his conclusion that “China is a trade cheat.” He argues that China’s trade policies have cost America tens of thousands of jobs and that China has engaged in routine corporate espionage and copyright infringement.

But there’s something else that irritates Zakaria about China’s behavior (as well as that of India and Brazil). “Today the greatest threat to the open world economy comes from these large countries that have chosen to maintain mixed economies, refuse to liberalize much more, and have enough power to hold firm,” he
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in his latest Post op-ed.

Trump, Brown, and Zakaria have very different economic visions. Zakaria is a globalist, Brown is an old-fashioned progressive, and Trump is a nationalist. All three, however, view China opportunistically as a useful enemy to wave in front of the electorate.

China is certainly a convenient target. But is it really cheating? And are tariffs the best way to address the situation?
[...]
For the longest time, China’s greatest sin in the eyes of the United States was its currency manipulation: devaluing the yuan in order to make its exports cheaper (and imports more expensive). With the exception of a brief devaluation in early 2016, however, China has been strengthening the yuan against the dollar for more than a decade. From 2005, the yuan has
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against the dollar. Moreover, since Trump took office, the yuan has
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against the dollar.

[...]
A third U.S. complaint centers around the level of tariffs — for instance the 25 percent rate China slaps on auto imports. That number is accurate, but China still
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U.S. cars for every one car it exports to the United States. In other words, the tariff doesn’t serve as much of a barrier to U.S. sales (except perhaps on high-end vehicles). Meanwhile, it’s also true that the U.S. tariff on Chinese cars is only 2.5 percent — but critics usually fail to mention the 25 percent tariff that Washington imposes on Chinese trucks. Chinese tariffs are also much lower on auto parts.

Over all,
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, the average tariff imposed by the Chinese government is 9.9 percent. True, that contrasts with only 3.5 percent for the United States. But China also clocks in considerably lower than South Korea (14. 9 percent), Brazil (13.5 percent), and India (13.4 percent).

Then there’s the issue that Trump has brought up of the requirement China imposes on foreign corporate partners to enter into a 50-50 joint venture with Chinese companies that presumably want to siphon off the intellectual property of the outsider investor. As economist Lawrence Summers points out, however, the U.S. companies in question are largely interested in outsourcing their production. “It is more than a little ironic that an administration that condemns outsourcing should make standing up for those who move production to China so central a priority,” he
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.

In fact, as Summers points out, China has been quite responsive over the years to negotiations on trade issues: “China’s global surpluses are now far below the U.S. negotiating targets of a few years ago, China has spent about $1 trillion propping up its currency, and intellectual-property protections are far better enforced.”

Underlying much of the critique of China is something else entirely: envy and anger that an economic system different from the U.S. has succeeded so remarkably. Zakaria, for instance, censures China for its refusal to “liberalize much more.” But liberalization is not just about reducing tariffs, which China has been doing as a member of the WTO. Proponents of liberalization want to see the Chinese government privatize lucrative state-owned industries and make it easier for foreigners to own those industries. Given its history — and the reasons for that long interregnum between economic dominance in the 18th century and today — China is particularly sensitive about being carved up by foreigners.

Whatever position you might take on China’s economic policies, tariffs are not going to do anything to reverse the trade imbalance with the United States or magically produce more jobs for Americans in the steel or auto sectors. The bottom line is that the United States should consider copying China, not criticizing it. The U.S. government should be investing in the modernization of key industries, pouring money into the retraining of American workers, and implementing a large-scale infrastructure development program that relies heavily on domestic sourcing.

That’s where at least half of the Pentagon’s budget should be going, not preparing for some future non-trade war with China.
 
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