ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

vincent said:

US is going to attach a sovereign country with no evidence. Anyone with a half a brain will see the US is using it as a pretense

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Fortunately I happen to have a full Brain.
Syria is no longer a country it's a failed state, and at the moment 3-4 nations have already entered the war.
Syria is signatory, as such if they are engaging in Chemical weapons attacks then there has to be consequences. Unless they produce evidence that these were the actions of a Non state actor.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Fortunately I happen to have a full Brain.
Syria is no longer a country it's a failed state, and at the moment 3-4 nations have already entered the war.
Syria is signatory, as such if they are engaging in Chemical weapons attacks then there has to be consequences. Unless they produce evidence that these were the actions of a Non state actor.

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Which internationally recognized body has declared Syria to be a failed state? Do you have inside contacts with UN and OCPW? How can you be sure that Syria is responsible for East Duma attack when OCPW hasn't even made any public statements regarding who is responsible? Accusation without proof isn't really a good example of someone with sound logic.

Failed state
noun

1. a state whose political or economic system has become so weak that the government is no longer in control.

no International body declares a failed state it's a status of fact not one of decoration.

texx1 said:

Accusation without proof isn't really a good example of someone with sound logic.

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I'll just revel in the Irony of trying to use that as a reason I am wrong.

How can you be sure that Syria is responsible for East Duma attack when OCPW hasn't even made any public statements regarding who is responsible?

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Can you prove they didn't?
Thus far there has been a lot of claims of Conspiracy, yet without proof how do you react? Just let it keep happening?

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Failed state
noun

1. a state whose political or economic system has become so weak that the government is no longer in control.

no International body declares a failed state it's a status of fact not one of decoration.


I'll just revel in the Irony of trying to use that as a reason I am wrong.?

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Let's examine why you are factually wrong about Syria being a failed state. By the virtue of land mass and population that is currently under the control of Assad's government, it doesn't fit the dictionary definition of failed state. Feel free to take look at the Syrian civil war map posted earlier in this thread, area under Assad control (red) is significantly larger than the area under rebel or ISIS control. I don't know how you are logically claim Syria is a failed state when a simple map can prove how wrong you are being.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Can you prove they didn't?
Thus far there has been a lot of claims of Conspiracy, yet without proof how do you react? Just let it keep happening?

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I didn't make the accusation that Syria is responsible for East Duma chemical attack. You did. The onus is on the accuser to prove his claim in this case that Assad ordered chemical attack. As far as I am aware OPCW is sending a team to Duma to investigate. Until they conclude that Assad did it, no one has any real proof as to who is responsible.

texx1 said:

Let's examine why you are factually wrong about Syria being a failed state. By the virtue of land mass and population that is currently under the control of Assad's government, it doesn't fit the dictionary definition of failed state. Feel free to take look at the Syrian civil war map posted earlier in this thread, area under Assad control (red) is significantly larger than the area under rebel or ISIS control. I don't know how you are logically claim Syria is a failed state when a simple map can prove how wrong you are being.

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Maps can say a lot of things. however beyond those areas Is Assad in charge? And even in those areas Is it the Syrian military or Russian and Iran? Factor in areas now being taken by Turkey and The Kurds. Sorry but No Syria is a failed state.

I didn't make the accusation that Syria is responsible for East Duma chemical attack. You did.

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ME?! PErsonally? Wow I din't know I was In Syria.
The word "IF" it seems you missed.

as such "IF" they are engaging in Chemical weapons attacks.

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The onus is on the accuser to prove his claim in this case that Assad ordered chemical attack. As far as I am aware OPCW is sending a team to Duma to investigate. Until they conclude that Assad did it, on one has any real proof as to who is responsible.

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And by the Same logic, the claim that it is a False Flag Operation, is also a baseless accusation.
However the OPCW and UN are not the only body investigating, Intelligence agencies and governments will also do so and if they conclude that it was Assad then action will be taken.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

And by the Same logic, the claim that it is a False Flag Operation, is also a baseless accusation.
However the OPCW and UN are not the only body investigating, Intelligence agencies and governments will also do so and if they conclude that it was Assad then action will be taken.

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The West declared it is ready to attach Syria any days now, before any proof is presented to the world. Whatever happened to the innocent until proven guilty principle?

To a lot of us, this whole thing doesn't pass the smell test.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Maps can say a lot of things. however beyond those areas Is Assad in charge? And even in those areas Is it the Syrian military or Russian and Iran? Factor in areas now being taken by Turkey and The Kurds. Sorry but No Syria is a failed state.

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The red part on the map means Syrian government has effective control. Unless you are saying Russian/Iranian military presence in Syria actually outnumbers Syrian Arab Army which would be ridiculous, it's hard to claim area under Assad control is actually under the control of Russia and Iran.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

And by the Same logic, the claim that it is a False Flag Operation, is also a baseless accusation.
However the OPCW and UN are not the only body investigating, Intelligence agencies and governments will also do so and if they conclude that it was Assad then action will be taken.

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I agree with you that claiming the chemical attack is a false flag operation is also baseless since no one has any real proof. And you are right, US and Russia government can draw whatever conclusion they want and take whatever actions they deem fit. And they will have to live with the consequences. Personally, I put more faith in UN and OPCW's investigation than national intelligence agencies especially after Iraq WMD fiasco.

The fact is The US has not attacked yet. as to your smell test the number of attack in the past and the Syrian government had Chemical weapons and the way the system work could still have them, is pretty convincing prima facie evidence. Add in the use of Barrel bombs and the control of the Area siding to Assad and a more grounded argument can be made.

texx1 said:

The red part on the map means Syrian government has effective control. Unless you are saying Russian/Iranian military presence in Syria actually outnumbers Syrian Arab Army which would be ridiculous, it's hard to claim area under Assad control is actually under the control of Russia and Iran.

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Assad would have been beheaded by now if not for the Russians and Iranians. He owes them BIG TIME. they are the ones who keep him in what power he has.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Assad would have been beheaded by now if not for the Russians and Iranians. He owes them BIG TIME. they are the ones who keep him in what power he has.

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Russia and Iran are Assad's allies. Assad invited them to support him to win the civil war. When you are being attacked, you ask for your allies' help. It doesn't diminish the fact the Assad's government is still in control of most of country.

texx1 said:

Russia and Iran are Assad's allies. Assad invited them to support him to win the civil war. When you are being attack, you ask for you allied help. It doesn't diminish the fact the Assad government is still in control in most of country.

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And they came in because they are such good friends, who do this all out of the goodness of there hearts... The Iranians have started construction of a base in El-Kiswah, The Israeli's have been conducting strikes regularly to slow if not prevent construction of other bases like at T4. The Russians have expanded there presence in Syria building more bases and moving into Syrian military bases. They aim to use Syria post war for there own aims.