CV-17 Shandong (002 carrier) Thread I ...News, Views and operations

vesicles said:

I think it’s becoming a misconception that things are cheaper in China. Nowadays, it has become so common for those “fresh-off-the-boat” Chinese to exclaim “man! Things are so cheap in the US!”

I’ve seen many Chinese coming to the US for the sole purpose of shopping because things in the US have become so much cheaper than the same things in China. I’ve heard stories of many Chinese spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in the US because the same products in China would cost significantly more. And I’m not talking about only luxury goods, but everyday stuff like clothes and electronics.

Salary in China is also not what it was before. My mother-in-law was a high school chemistry teacher before she retired. Her retirement is now US$12,000 annually, plus additional pay for Medicare stuff. The high school teachers who are still working make a lot more.

Although average income for all Chinese is still low, ~US$9,000, the salary for the white collar workers in China is almost on a similar level as their western counterparts. I myself have been recruited by some universities in China. And they offer a pay that’s actually higher than what I’m making now in Texas, in absolute dollars.

And here when we discuss salaries for the military, we are specifically talking about the navy, where most of the sailors in the PLAN have college degrees or higher. So they are white collar workers. And they get paid much better because the Navy is competing with all those multinational companies for the same talent, they must offer similar benefits.

While I agree that the Chinese sailors get paid less than their western counterparts, I do not believe the gap is as big as some would have believed. In fact, it is my belief that some positions in the PLAN, especially technicians and engineers, might even get paid more than their western counterparts. For civilian engineers and scientists, that is often the case.

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antiterror13 said:

Big mac index is not a good indicator for that case. Big Mac in China likely get most of the ingredient from the US (including beef and chicken nuggets). Also only small proportion of Chinese actually buy Big Mac .. even small proportion ... actually big number

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vesicles said:

And many goods in the US come from China too. We need something that is sold in both countries and bought by the common people in large quantity. It’s a way to show spending power.

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vesicles said:

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People have been using the Big Mac index to compare spending power of different countries. This obvisouly compares every day consumables for average Joes. As the above website shows, in 2017, a Big Mac costed $5.3 in the US and $3.2 in China. Still less, but not as much as you would have thought.

What the index suggests is that the same thing in China costs about 2/3 of the cost for the same thing in the US. If we extrapolate from this, a carrier in China would cost 2/3 of a carrier of the same class in the US. Of course, the USN super carrier is much bigger and much more expensive. With that being said, the material and labor disparity should be ~2/3, closer to what Jeff has suggested, not 1/10 suggested by you.

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vesicles said:

I think it’s becoming a misconception that things are cheaper in China. Nowadays, it has become so common for those “fresh-off-the-boat” Chinese to exclaim “man! Things are so cheap in the US!”

I’ve seen many Chinese coming to the US for the sole purpose of shopping because things in the US have become so much cheaper than the same things in China. I’ve heard stories of many Chinese spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in the US because the same products in China would cost significantly more. And I’m not talking about only luxury goods, but everyday stuff like clothes and electronics.

Salary in China is also not what it was before. My mother-in-law was a high school chemistry teacher before she retired. Her retirement is now US$12,000 annually, plus additional pay for Medicare stuff. The high school teachers who are still working make a lot more.

Although average income for all Chinese is still low, ~US$9,000, the salary for the white collar workers in China is almost on a similar level as their western counterparts. I myself have been recruited by some universities in China. And they offer a pay that’s actually higher than what I’m making now in Texas, in absolute dollars.

And here when we discuss salaries for the military, we are specifically talking about the navy, where most of the sailors in the PLAN have college degrees or higher. So they are white collar workers. And they get paid much better because the Navy is competing with all those multinational companies for the same talent, they must offer similar benefits.

While I agree that the Chinese sailors get paid less than their western counterparts, I do not believe the gap is as big as some would have believed. In fact, it is my belief that some positions in the PLAN, especially technicians and engineers, might even get paid more than their western counterparts. For civilian engineers and scientists, that is often the case.

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asif iqbal said:

Carriers do not sail on their own they sail part of the overall carrier task group

The cost depends on the manning power, because that is the largest bill

for USN there's over 5,000 personal in the entire strike group and that costs around $2.5 billion per year if deployed 24/7, that is why Ford Class is cheaper less manpower and will save $4.8 billion over the lifetime of the carrier

for Royal Navy it would be less since less manpower is required

for PLAN the same would apply since they are both ski jumps and overall manning is lower

But put it this way, there is no cheap way to run a carrier strike group, only top tier navy’s can afford it, it’s a good way for small country’s to go bankrupt

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kwaigonegin said:

When you're out in the high seas all sailors are brothers. Politicians cause wars. The guy scrubbing the deck or manning the pri fly holds those others in the high seas with high regard and respect.

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