Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Considering the difficulties of taking this type of pictures, one can only conclude these are from insiders, who knows the exact time and location the flight tests take place, and have cameras and steady hands.
you're exactly right, these are professional quality, probably official, or at least close to it, govt's leak pictures and info all the time! makes life a lot more fun,,, think of it as a "govt selfie", LOL.

no one in China has access to this kind of stuff unless its officially sanctioned, not under President Xi,, why I humorously refer to him as Emperor XI!

OT sorry but one other make me very curious coz ofc big secret as always this one and in more in a shelter how it is possible ?
Su-35
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/chinese-purchase-of-su-35.t5915/page-253#post-475089

Normally usual pics in 99% of cases we see the plane in flight near its base in general.
 

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
OT sorry but one other make me very curious coz ofc big secret as always this one and in more in a shelter how it is possible ?
Su-35
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/chinese-purchase-of-su-35.t5915/page-253#post-475089

Normally usual pics in 99% of cases we see the plane in flight near its base in general.

Actually you can only take two types of photos of a jet near base. One is it is on the ground. The other is it is about to take off or land, where the picture contains a belly shot, often with landing gear extended. These are 99% of all pictures of J-20 in the early days.

Once it is in the air, say, 300 meters in the air, it becomes incredibly hard to track. The new gen digital camera's autofocus function will not work in that situation because the background is the sky; and a tripod will not help much since the jet is turning quickly. Most airshow pictures require good lighting, patience, skills and experience, a heavy load of post processing. But even that the planes are purposefully fly low for "show" to a ground audience. A real test flight (could be far away from base) will be much harder to capture. So despite the FC-31 pictures do not look stunning, they are among the hardest to take.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Actually you can only take two types of photos of a jet near base. One is it is on the ground. The other is it is about to take off or land, where the picture contains a belly shot, often with landing gear extended. These are 99% of all pictures of J-20 in the early days.

Once it is in the air, say, 300 meters in the air, it becomes incredibly hard to track. The new gen digital camera's autofocus function will not work in that situation because the background is the sky; and a tripod will not help much since the jet is turning quickly. Most airshow pictures require good lighting, patience, skills and experience, a heavy load of post processing. But even that the planes are purposefully fly low for "show" to a ground audience. A real test flight (could be far away from base) will be much harder to capture. So despite the FC-31 pictures do not look stunning, they are among the hardest to take.
Something like this (up to 400mm focal length telephoto), plus the aircraft almost directly above ground around 300 meters as you say and the shooter allowed to be within 200 meters of the radius would yield a photo that we have just seen.

Autofocus is totally useless in armature lenses being too slow. Once focus is lost, it runs crazy to refocus without knowing where to start its effort.

Focus adjustment is still needed, unlike some may suggest infinite focus due to the distance. In a telephoto, the infinite focal distance is much further away than a wider lens.

The only way works is a preset focal length close to infinite with a fast brain and fingers to quickly adjust the ring.

The FOV is also extremely narrow that the aircraft can fly out in split of second. When I do it, I have both my eyes open, one looking at the aircraft through the view finder, the other eye tracking aircraft. It is very tough to the brain.
ChrisFrylink-IMG_3766.jpg
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
It looks like some US Navy types took your suggestion to heart
However they used their planes to paint big penises in the sky.

After a barrage of horrified complaints the Navy apologised by saying the Navy hold their Crew to the highest standards and we find this absolutely unacceptable,of zero training value and we are holding the crew accountable.

I found this story in the USA today.com

That is just stoopid, kick em out! its weird too,,, further evidence of how
Something like this (up to 400mm focal length telephoto), plus the aircraft almost directly above ground around 300 meters as you say and the shooter allowed to be within 200 meters of the radius would yield a photo that we have just seen.

Autofocus is totally useless in armature lenses being too slow. Once focus is lost, it runs crazy to refocus without knowing where to start its effort.

Focus adjustment is still needed, unlike some may suggest infinite focus due to the distance. In a telephoto, the infinite focal distance is much further away than a wider lens.

The only way works is a preset focal length close to infinite with a fast brain and fingers to quickly adjust the ring.

The FOV is also extremely narrow that the aircraft can fly out in split of second. When I do it, I have both my eyes open, one looking at the aircraft through the view finder, the other eye tracking aircraft. It is very tough to the brain.
ChrisFrylink-IMG_3766.jpg

Come on, all old school photogs managed to adjust shutter and apertures in addition to focusing the camera,, it ain't hard, and most cameras have a manual mode?? not sure about those Canon's but my new Nikon will still take my old pre-AI lenses...in which you still focus and adjust aperture manually, and set your shutter speed manually on the camera body....

not saying I can do all this,,, I'm thinking about buying a good used D300 for aircraft chores, but it does get a lot more difficult as your lense gets longer, and your field of view shrinks,,, LOL

I'll have to try the both eyes open deal
 

kurutoga

Junior Member
Registered Member
Something like this (up to 400mm focal length telephoto), plus the aircraft almost directly above ground around 300 meters as you say and the shooter allowed to be within 200 meters of the radius would yield a photo that we have just seen.

Autofocus is totally useless in armature lenses being too slow. Once focus is lost, it runs crazy to refocus without knowing where to start its effort.

Focus adjustment is still needed, unlike some may suggest infinite focus due to the distance. In a telephoto, the infinite focal distance is much further away than a wider lens.

The only way works is a preset focal length close to infinite with a fast brain and fingers to quickly adjust the ring.

The FOV is also extremely narrow that the aircraft can fly out in split of second. When I do it, I have both my eyes open, one looking at the aircraft through the view finder, the other eye tracking aircraft. It is very tough to the brain.
ChrisFrylink-IMG_3766.jpg

Due to TV, people have rosy unrealistic expectations on tele lens, just like on rifle scopes.

If you have every tried anything moving at distance (say a bird flying 50 meters away) with a 400mm lens, good luck finding the object! I have tested 600mm lens at air shows and for the life of me I just can not put the target into the frame, not to mention in focus. Viewing angle is the issue. Just by pointing the lens toward the target, does not mean you can find it. An easy test is to take a picture of the moon at night, without using tripods.

People at football fields use 600mm or so at ~100m distance. The jet is very possibly 1000m or further from you.

My own experience is it will be impossible to take full size pictures of a military jet unless it is intended to present itself to you. I am sure some experienced people can do it beautifully. So next time you see a photo of jet in flight, you should appreciate it more.

The FC31 pictures are a bit soft, probably they did not have the $50k lens. Still, it beats most if not all of the J-20 pictures we have seen in years.
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
Due to TV, people have rosy unrealistic expectations on tele lens, just like on rifle scopes.

If you have every tried anything moving at distance (say a bird flying 50 meters away) with a 400mm lens, good luck finding the object! I have tested 600mm lens at air shows and for the life of me I just can not put the target into the frame, not to mention in focus. Viewing angle is the issue. Just by pointing the lens toward the target, does not mean you can find it. An easy test is to take a picture of the moon at night, without using tripods.

People at football fields use 600mm or so at ~100m distance. The jet is very possibly 1000m or further from you.

My own experience is it will be impossible to take full size pictures of a military jet unless it is intended to present itself to you. I am sure some experienced people can do it beautifully. So next time you see a photo of jet in flight, you should appreciate it more.

The FC31 pictures are a bit soft, probably they did not have the $50k lens. Still, it beats most if not all of the J-20 pictures we have seen in years.
SAC, like any other firm, needs its own PR and marketing, especially if they’re trying to get customers to bite on their products, so naturally we’re going to see some self initiated photography once in a while.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
That is just stoopid, kick em out! its weird too,,, further evidence of how


Come on, all old school photogs managed to adjust shutter and apertures in addition to focusing the camera,, it ain't hard, and most cameras have a manual mode?? not sure about those Canon's but my new Nikon will still take my old pre-AI lenses...in which you still focus and adjust aperture manually, and set your shutter speed manually on the camera body....

not saying I can do all this,,, I'm thinking about buying a good used D300 for aircraft chores, but it does get a lot more difficult as your lense gets longer, and your field of view shrinks,,, LOL

I'll have to try the both eyes open deal
Yes, no need to have the Canon red ring white lens (the top end), I myself use a mid range 300mm (480mm equivalent on a Canon 20D). I use manual focus and let the AI do the exposure thing (nothing matter in the broad daylight).
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Guys ..... back to topic please !

at little tense here Bub?? my initial comment on the better quality photo's, (I thought you liked those too?), is that they are officially sanctioned/leaked on purpose, leading to the obvious conclusion that the F-31 has far more official support than some members are willing to admit?? I myself feel that the FC-31 may not be for export only, I certainly hope not anyway! as it has the potential to meet a very definite need for more Chinese 4th generation aircraft! (Western 5 Gen)
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
at little tense here Bub?? my initial comment on the better quality photo's, (I thought you liked those too?), is that they are officially sanctioned/leaked on purpose, leading to the obvious conclusion that the F-31 has far more official support than some members are willing to admit?? I myself feel that the FC-31 may not be for export only, I certainly hope not anyway! as it has the potential to meet a very definite need for more Chinese 4th generation aircraft! (Western 5 Gen)


Indeed I'm tensed !

To admit these constant off-topic posts - and this is only a small ot-conversation - are only the tip of an iceberg. Just look at how many posts are "reported" and honestly I feel alone here in the wilderness.

The new moderators are still not installed, I still can only beg and delete and Webby does not respond to any of my mails or conversation-attempts since weeks ... it's a mess.

Besides that I'm preparing the final Chemistry-exam and work on three books in parallel.

Indeed, it's my fault, all mine but I'm indeed quite tensed.

Deino
 
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