J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

Status
Not open for further replies.

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Frankenstein engines? Sounds farfetched.


If You want to have a good laugh the just go over to the Pakistan-Defence-Forum. There's a recent hype going on - and bashing of Deino due to his stupidity since he's not willing to accept the Chinese technological break-thru - since some found a report which claims that there are four types of WS-15 already ready now. :p:D

[Fan-Boy-Modus on]

- the first one has 15 ton thrust for J-10,
- the second one has 17 ton thrust for a new project by CAC
- the third one (incorporating a certain secret technology to lower the weight :) ) has now 24 t of thrust; this is the current one used by the J-20.
- the fourth is a miniaturized version currently used by the FC-31V2

[Fan-Boy-Modus off]


The typical fan-boys are already wetting themselves: :D

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



Anyway, I'm still interested in what type of "locally build Chinese engine" the J-20 uses by now if this CCTV report is correct.


Deino
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Maybe a hint that it was a lousily researched report with false claims ???

That's what I was thinking. A lot of people, I think, are taking this to be a sign that they leaked some information that they shouldn't have, but there are other possibilities.

While I agree that may be possible, wouldn't that be rather unprecedented?

I mean the way I see it there are two likely explanations for why they pulled it (if it is indeed pulled).

1: is that they pulled it because the video was accurate and accidentally revealed information that they shouldn't have. This would not be unprecedented for Chinese media to retroactively remove sensitive military information from a previous disclosure or a place hosting such information, though usually this is online or on forums
2: is that they pulled it because the information in the video was inaccurate, and for some reason they felt compelled to remove or rectify that false information. This to me is a little bit more doubtful though not entirely unprecedented, for example the recent Navy awkwardly PSed anniversary picture they put up on social media which they ended up apologizing for.


My question is if we are tending towards reason 2, then that means reason 1 is considered less likely -- i.e.: that the information in the video is hard to believe or doesn't jive with what we currently know about J-20's engine situation.

My question is, is there anything in the video which is inherently difficult to believe? It seems to me the biggest issue is the claim that J-20's engines are assembled at Liming, but there are ways to interpret that statementw which might be logical.


OTOH, the idea that they might scrub a video because it accidentally mentions Emei which is a fairly sensitive and important project IMO is quite believable.


That said, I suppose if they end up putting a modified portion of the video back online later with one part changed to rectify information then I suppose that would lend credence to reason 2. but until then, I think reason 1 is just as plausible
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
While I agree that may be possible, wouldn't that be rather unprecedented?

I mean the way I see it there are two likely explanations for why they pulled it (if it is indeed pulled).

1: is that they pulled it because the video was accurate and accidentally revealed information that they shouldn't have. This would not be unprecedented for Chinese media to retroactively remove sensitive military information from a previous disclosure or a place hosting such information, though usually this is online or on forums
2: is that they pulled it because the information in the video was inaccurate, and for some reason they felt compelled to remove or rectify that false information. This to me is a little bit more doubtful though not entirely unprecedented, for example the recent Navy awkwardly PSed anniversary picture they put up on social media which they ended up apologizing for.


My question is if we are tending towards reason 2, then that means reason 1 is considered less likely -- i.e.: that the information in the video is hard to believe or doesn't jive with what we currently know about J-20's engine situation.

My question is, is there anything in the video which is inherently difficult to believe? It seems to me the biggest issue is the claim that J-20's engines are assembled at Liming, but there are ways to interpret that statementw which might be logical.


OTOH, the idea that they might scrub a video because it accidentally mentions Emei which is a fairly sensitive and important project IMO is quite believable.


That said, I suppose if they end up putting a modified portion of the video back online later with one part changed to rectify information then I suppose that would lend credence to reason 2. but until then, I think reason 1 is just as plausible


In general I completely agree with Your analysis: However that still not answers the red part in Your post:

But even if I agree with You, there are on the one side so many theories around - some more, some less likely - and second, there are by rationale not many options on the table. So what is the most likely one ??

The issue is simply from all reliable reports we know, the WS-15 has reached a certain milestone and is allegedly ready for a first test (IMO on the Il-76LL at best), however it is surely far-far away from being already integrated in these few LRIP aircraft and even less it is flying from day-one.

The issue raised up again with this latest CCTV-report that got some hype by the usual suspects in certain forums as being prove that the WS-15 is ready, that the WS-15 is available already in 4 versions and the most powerful one delivering 24t of thrust.

As far as I however understand this report:
- No single word mentions the specific engine type used on the J-20,
- no single word mentions WS-10B or even WS-15 ??
- All this report says quite mysteriously, the "J-20 uses a locally manufactured engine" and it merely mentioned Liming factory.


As such my question - and I think it is not unjustified - even if I fully understand that some don't like my questions since they are fully happy with the plain report or information that the "J-20 uses a locally manufactured engine" or maybe fear the facts. But as long as we don't know its true designation nor any specific data, I don't see this discussion in no way as a finally closed case. Hope You don't mind.

In essence, what are the facts we know ? (= not much) and what are the theories (= some more or less likely while others are pure wet-dreams) ?
a050.gif
Here the possibilities:

1. An AL-31FN or uprated AL-31FN-based design (IMO based on the M2 and IMO the mots likely option) maybe localyl manufactured at Shenyang/Liming ? (it would explain "locally manufactured")

2. A WS-10B or even a rumoured WS-10/AL-31FN-Frankenstein-hybrid (IMO technically unlikely)

3. already a WS-15-prototype or WS-10/WS-15-hybrid as an intermediate development delivering between 17t to (IMO the joke of the day) 24t !!


So what's Your take?
Deino
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
If You want to have a good laugh the just go over to the Pakistan-Defence-Forum. There's a recent hype going on - and bashing of Deino due to his stupidity since he's not willing to accept the Chinese technological break-thru - since some found a report which claims that there are four types of WS-15 already ready now. :p:D




The typical fan-boys are already wetting themselves: :D

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



Anyway, I'm still interested in what type of "locally build Chinese engine" the J-20 uses by now if this CCTV report is correct.


Deino
It's really quite amazing that fanboys outside of mainland Chinese forums are even more zealous than the ones on Chinese forums sometimes. Hard to fathom. At least on the mainlander bbs, there are some elders that smack the fanboys some reality check.

Especially with something like WS-15, there is simply no evidence it will be ready for mass production anytime soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top