Shenyang FC-31 / J-31 Fighter Demonstrator
- Thread starter RedSky
- Start date
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
I doubt Turkey is more than giving a tacit interest in the J31 as Analysis of Alternatives
First, The Turkish Defence industry is NATO tied Turkey is a partner nation in the F35 and has it's own TFX program starting to partner, Recently getting BAE systems onboard.
Second, As we saw with FD2000 and the T-LORAMIDS program that means they may licence other defence technology sets but in the end the priority is being pushed hard for indigenous technology and development with Turkish wants to include the ability to export on their terms to any nation of their choosing. The Altay Tank for example recently hit a snag because the German Engine builder did not allow full technology transfer and the Germans have been cracking down on Export liberties. The Japanese who were approached said the same They wouldn't allow Turkey unlimited Export options, Now they are in talks with Ukraine. If The Turks did make an offer for J31's They would want full licensing for Turking production and technology integration with export.
Third, As stated above Turkey is a NATO state. Any system or technology integration from a non Nato state into a NATO state is going to be controversial as we saw with the FD2000, Hugely so. NATO likes to interconnect systems and networks Any fighter adopted by a NATO state would need to be part of those networks. That means integration of systems into the Fighter That means technology access Something NATO would want to avoid giving to a non Nato state like the PRC.
Equation
Lieutenant General
Yeah but NATO didn't seem to mind with Turkey using Russia S-400 missile defense system. Hardly any integration systems complaining lately. I'm just saying.
Who care about Turkey's intention? China from now on, will tell Turkey to take a hike on anything. Turkey has proven to be a player, totally untrustworthy. China will probably never wasting its time on Turkey again.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
@Equation, have yet to see delivery of S400. Now have we?
@Tidlewave
Chill. The Turkish intentions are of interest because of the TFX. If it materializes as advertised it would likely be aimed as a potential compedator. A twin engine medium weight conventional configuration multirole fifth generation fighter aimed for export. Of course the Chinese have the edge in that they are actually flying there machine vs the early stages of the TFX.
Whatever the case it hardly justifys the rant. Programs get cancelled. Happens all the time.
@Tidlewave
Chill. The Turkish intentions are of interest because of the TFX. If it materializes as advertised it would likely be aimed as a potential compedator. A twin engine medium weight conventional configuration multirole fifth generation fighter aimed for export. Of course the Chinese have the edge in that they are actually flying there machine vs the early stages of the TFX.
Whatever the case it hardly justifys the rant. Programs get cancelled. Happens all the time.
It's not my personal rant.
It's the message that comes across to me by reading Chinese articles and forum.
The Chinese say they won't trust Turkey again. On top of that, they say Turkey supporting eastern Turkmenistan movement in xinjiang
So, Don't shoot the messenger.
There is little doubt the current Turkish administration's long term ambition is to re-establish turkey as an independent pole, a region hegemony in the near and Middle East, and opposed to the EU, a sort of neo-ottoman empire. Long term Turkish membership in NATO is impossible and contrary to Turkish ambitions, although both sides have some incentive to delay the inevitable rupture so as to extract some usefulness out of each other to fulfill short term objectives. Turkey evidently considers the development of an independent arms industry that frees turkey from dependence on the west is a vital step to the re-establishment of the Neo-ottoman empire, hence turkey has embarked on a program to diversity its immediate sources of military supply, and to undertake a range of ambitious domestic development projects that is farther out of the country's true technical and industrial league than is usual for successful programs that completes within some reasonable time frame. Strongman like erdogan typically think realities are less real than their own desires and willpower.
If turkey hadn't backed out of the SAM deal with china, I have no doubt china would have made sure the deal died in the current geopolitical situation, and for good reason.
China won't take too conspicuous a role in encouraging the anti-western reach for independent great power status by turkey because at the moment, the relationship between EU and the US is in total disarray and unlikely to fully recover in the foreseeable future. China has the opportunity to reach an geopolitical accommodation with the EU separately from its relationship with the US. Turkey successfully becoming a independent great power is a long shot. An accommodation with the EU separately from the relationship of either with the US is therefore a vastly greater and more tempting prize.
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Lethe
Captain
Yeah but NATO didn't seem to mind with Turkey using Russia S-400 missile defense system. Hardly any integration systems complaining lately. I'm just saying.
That it is an interesting point. Certainly the public dialogue seems far more muted (or absent) this time around. I wonder what would explain the difference. The simplest explanation -- that western powers find Russian missiles less objectionable than Chinese missiles -- seems implausible.
There is clearer recognition that turkey's days as a NATO member is numbered. As is turkey remains a member in name only.