Chinese specific test- and research aircraft - some sort of X-planes ?

Deino

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The title already says it all, since I wonder why there were so few dedicated test-bed concepts by now - I remember the BW-6 FBW-testbed, the J-7FS with the chin intake ... ? - and if a program similar to the USAF/NASA led X-series would be a good idea to explore certain technologies ?

Any thoughts ?

Deino
 

SanWenYu

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Registered Member
The title already says it all, since I wonder why there were so few dedicated test-bed concepts by now - I remember the BW-6 FBW-testbed, the J-7FS with the chin intake ... ? - and if a program similar to the USAF/NASA led X-series would be a good idea to explore certain technologies ?

Any thoughts ?

Deino
Lack of funding back then would be my uneducated guess. Now wind tunnels and computer simulation can probably replace test-beds in some areas, too.

By the way, in addition to those you mentioned above, there was also J-8 ACT in the 80s for testing fly-by-wire. You probably knew this already.
 

delft

Brigadier
I think no-one is now prepared to accept the loss of lives of test pilots that was then acceptable while on the other hand the fully electronic test pilot has not been fully developed. In the '70's and later the number of X-planes was pretty small and that prevented some developments.
Imagine a very large 3-D printer printing moulds for large panels to build a full size model aircraft with the right stiffness fitted with whatever is necessary to test unsteady flow, non-attached flow, strange configurations or whatever is necessary to find out what you need to find out. Build fast, test fast, check the computer programs simulating what you are testing. That is the way to check your simulations against real air.
 

Deino

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Thanks to all so far ... but now ?? I think the situation has changed dramatically ...
 

AlyxMS

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I think lots of early X planes were made due to our lack of understanding in aerodynamics and aircraft design.

Now, thanks to NASA/NACA most of them are thoroughly documented, and several "good ideas" were proven to be stupid, there's little incentive to strap a man on a weirdly shaped one-off aircraft.

A strange thought: Could some projects that we thought were abandoned (like the lijian UAV) been X planes?
 

delft

Brigadier
A strange thought: Could some projects that we thought were abandoned (like the lijian UAV) been X planes?
Not strange at all. We wondered at the time about the odd choice of engine. If it was an X-plane this choice meant money was saved on the cost of the engine.
 

delft

Brigadier
I think lots of early X planes were made due to our lack of understanding in aerodynamics and aircraft design.
We do now understand classical aircraft, large aspect ratio wing, relatively narrow fuselage and tail planes at the aft end of the fuselage, and several non-classical ones, but several are not yet sufficiently investigated and are therefore only available to very brave designers and might not be acceptable to the management of the company. One example is the joined wing concept that has been promoted for a long time but is only now getting traction in Chinese UAV designs. Another is the STOL tilt wing concept which was used in the German airliner design BV 144 (
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) a prototype of which was built in France and first flew after the war in August 1945. This could provide a much cheaper transport than V-22 Osprey, able to make use of roads for take off and landing but lacking vertical take off and landing, if combined with a cross-shaft between the turbine engines and possibly with contra- props. A third is the tail boom mounted on the wing tips.
There are more concepts that deserve to be investigated and to be made available to the World. A main reason every aircraft designer in the World needs to learn the English language is to be able to make use of the immense amount of information about these matters provided by NACA and NASA over the last century. If China were to provide missing information in Chinese they would also have to learn Chinese.:)
 

Akkarin

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Whats the source of the Photo ? Google reverse image search didnt yield any usefull information.

It reminds me of the V-12. Werent there some rumours for a russian-chinese helicopter in the 40 tons payload class ?

The different axis counter-rotating rotors are perfect for compound helicopters. You get similar benefits as the FVL program, but its much simpler than a tiltrotor or rigid coaxial rotors. Considering that china has thus far not shown much R&D effort into this direction its interesting to see this design.

here is a slightly better version of the picture:
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Also notice the aircraft behind it, which is also a compound helicopter, but with a Kamov-like coax rotor design. It kinda looks like an UAV.
 
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delft

Brigadier
It reminds me of the V-12. Werent there some rumours for a russian-chinese helicopter in the 40 tons payload class ?
This is a small compound helicopter. It's not to be compared with V-12.
The rumours about the Russian-Chinese helicopter said a conventional configuration and smaller than Mi-26.
 
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