COMAC C919

SinoSoldier said:

Tone down the emotions, kid.

The Boeing equivalent of the C919 (namely, the 737) sources the majority of its parts from US-based or US-owned companies, much of them manufactured directly in the United States. Critically, the engines (the most expensive and crucial part of the aircraft) are mostly developed and built within the US.

See here:

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The C919, on the other hand, is almost completely built from non-Chinese components, including the engines. The only "Chinese" portion of the C919 remains limited to the wings, horizontal stabilizers, radar cover, and outer fuselage. All of the internal subsystems, such as avionics and flight control, are non-Chinese. Even the landing gear is not Chinese.

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Still the same thing to me. Boeing needs 'parts' from other nations to keep it 'flying' or if it can keep flying by itself, why don't they do it?
COMAC is just starting off, and heads off to the Chinese that they were able to form together a coalition for their first large commercial plane despite some people or nations ( eg. Sinosoldier) efforts to spoil it. Go China.

Hendrik_2000 said:

Don't know what you mean by design commonality Certainly the part is not interchangeable . The flight avionic , engine might be the same.
What is the purpose of "design commonality"
C919 is direct competitor of bombardier product Why should they help China doesn't make sense

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The only bombardier competitor in the A320 B737 C919 segment is the C series, which has approximately 0% market share. You think they really stand to lose anything by joining the C919 bandwagon? At least they are guaranteed to sell something to every copy of C919 sold inside the Chinese market. Maybe they calculated a hybrid between their c series and the C919 has a far better chance against A and B globally because of the economy of scale of the Chinese market, where as their own C series has like 20 orders.

SinoSoldier said:

Essentially. The C919-Bombardier deal is meant to be a coalition against the likes of Boeing & Airbus while allowing entrance of Bombardier into Chinese markets.

I would imagine that sharing parts between the CSeries and C9XX would also bring down the cost of both.

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It doesn't say that they have common part that is your insinuation. What it mean is they work together on marketing of each other product NO BIG DEAL Or at least servicing agreement
CS100 is for 100-130 passenger CS300 is eactly the same load as C919 So it is direct competitor

China has their own highly developed military aircraft industry including the Y 20, Y8, Y9 avionic It is no big deal for them to source it from domestic producer. The same with landing gear
But that is marketing suicide as the prospective client need to learn new procedure and set up new logistic

Not to mention with licensing, China is now working hard to have reciprocating licensing agreement with European licensing body

Richard Santos said:

The only bombardier competitor in the A320 B737 C919 segment is the C series, which has approximately 0% market share. You think they really stand to lose anything by joining the C919 bandwagon? At least they are guaranteed to sell something to every copy of C919 sold inside the Chinese market. Maybe they calculated a hybrid between their c series and the C919 has a far better chance against A and B globally because of the economy of scale of the Chinese market.

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And how big market share is the C series? They have trouble selling that plane and loosing competition to embraer because it is completely new plant maybe technically superior But nightmare for the client

Embraer instead sell their plane as upgrade for existing fleet sharing the same logistic

Bombardier is close to bankrupt if not for Government of Canada subsidy and offer of cheap loan

C919 has huge captive market most of Chinese airline are government own Right now they have outstanding order for 570 How many plane did bombardier sell less than 200 ?

Another many Boeing part is outsource from Japan too So are you guy saying Boeing is made in Japan?

So far the barbardier c series has delivered like 20 orders, meanwhile Boeing has show it was willing to dump new B737 at such a steep discount that the savings to the airlines is more than enough to cover the penalty charges for canceling bombardier orders.

Combined with the fact that Boeing and airbus has large established supply chain and offer airlines huge savings through commonality with the vast fleets of B738 and A320 most airline already have, I doubt the C series would make very far.

Yodello said:

Still the same thing to me. Boeing needs 'parts' from other nations to keep it 'flying' or if it can keep flying by itself, why don't they do it?
COMAC is just starting off, and heads off to the Chinese that they were able to form together a coalition for their first large commercial plane despite some people or nations ( eg. Sinosoldier) efforts to spoil it. Go China.

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It's not the same thing when, in Boeing's case, most parts are supplied from homegrown manufacturers and factories, while in COMAC's case almost all of the components have to be imported. The emphasis is on the fact that COMAC has to import many of the components (i.e. engines) since no other domestic supplier could develop a satisfactory product.

Of course, nobody should expect too much of the C919, which is the flagship product of COMAC after all, but to tout this as a 100% Chinese effort or to say that this will magically break the Boeing-Airbus duopoly are ungrounded.

Hendrik_2000 said:

It doesn't say that they have common part that is your insinuation. What it mean is they work together on marketing of each other product NO BIG DEAL Or at least servicing agreement
CS100 is for 100-130 passenger CS300 is eactly the same load as C919 So it is direct competitor

China has their own highly developed military aircraft industry including the Y 20, Y8, Y9 avionic It is no big deal for them to source it from domestic producer. The same with landing gear
But that is marketing suicide as the prospective client need to learn new procedure and set up new logistic

Not to mention with licensing, China is now working hard to have reciprocating licensing agreement with European licensing body

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The deal extends beyond marketing. The MoU covers flight tests, common parts, training, and marketing, split into two phases.



Having the C919 licensed in Europe opens the doors for potential export but does not guarantee it in any way.

SinoSoldier said:

The deal extends beyond marketing. The MoU covers flight tests, common parts, training, and marketing, split into two phases.

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Having the C919 licensed in Europe opens the doors for potential export but does not guarantee it in any way.

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No, but it does bring the economy of scale generated by first filling about 600 domestic orders in china to the table.

Bombardier has 20 deliveries and competitors who sold about 10000 b737s and now sell b737s below bombardier's cost. No hope of economy of scale there.

Even product with large home market has to be competitive enough, since airlines aren't toothless.

SinoSoldier said:

Essentially. The C919-Bombardier deal is meant to be a coalition against the likes of Boeing & Airbus while allowing entrance of Bombardier into Chinese markets.

I would imagine that sharing parts between the CSeries and C9XX would also bring down the cost of both.

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You obviously misunderstand the cooperation between COMAC and Bombardier, their earlier statements explicitly told us the main purpose is bringing down cost by sharing some common subsystem/cockpit design/supporting adn service standards. I wouldnot call that "coalition", it just shows these two new comers know how difficult to survive in this segment of market duopoly by B737 and A320.