CV-16 Liaoning (001 carrier) Thread II ...News, Views and operations

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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
whoa! steady on .. it was a perfectly reasonable question.. I personally would say if it isnt qualifed for night ops, then it is NOT fully combat capable; but as Sangyes said , he wasnt judging, only asking the question. And as seems to be the case, there is no evidence of night ops being carried out. lack of evidence however does not mean it hasn't happened though.

Only idiot would think that war only happened during broad daylight . And I don't think that the planner of PLAN are idiot.

Most of those photo op are designed to evoke patriotic feeling, pride to the country . That is why they normally shot during the day to showcase the full glory of the carrier and their air wing. Shooting it at night you don't see anything except blinking light

I saw video where they operate at night on the ground. So they must aware there is such thing as night operation!.

For many of us who ae long time follower of PLAN we see many sceptic come and go .Yet they have never been right once!. That comment is uncalled for they are posted to spite the PLAN achivement

Like anything else. It normally take years before there is confirmation
 
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vesicles

Colonel
Only idiot would think that war only happened during broad daylight . And I don't think that the planner of PLAN are idiot.

Most of those photo op are designed to evoke patriotic feeling, pride to the country . That is why they normally shot during the day to showcase the full glory of the carrier and their air wing. Shooting it at night you don't see anything except blinking light

I saw video where they operate at night on the ground. So they must aware there is such thing as night operation!.

For many of us who ae long time follower of PLAN we see many sceptic come and go .Yet they have never been right once!. That comment is uncalled for they are posted to spite the PLAN achivement

Like anything else. It normally take years before there is confirmation

Hold your horses, my man. I think bruceb1959 is saying that the PLA may have done the night ops already. He is saying that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Kyle Mizokami doesn't believe the Liaoning is ready for combat, as claimed by the PLAN. The part that's eye catching is he also doesn't believe she will "never" stray far from China's coastal regions. That's an irrational thing to say, because never (in the ship's service time) is a long time, and 'show the flag' goodwill visits will likely happen all over the world.

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China's state media
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that the country's first aircraft carrier, Liaoning, is now "combat ready." The ship's political commissar says the ship is "preparing for actual combat at any time." Despite the tough talk, all evidence indicates that Beijing's sole flat top is likely a mere training vessel that would do very poorly in actual combat.

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was commissioned into service with the People's Liberation Army Navy in 2012. Originally built for the Soviet Navy, her unfinished hull languished in a Ukrainian shipyard after the end of the Cold War. Purchased by a PLA front company under the guise of housing a casino, the hull was towed back to China where it spent nearly a decade being refitted. The carrier was modernized in a Dalian shipyard to carry 18-20
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and up to a dozen helicopters.

Four years later, is Liaoning ready for combat? Almost certainly not. China may have trained up enough pilots to man the ship's air wing (less than half the size of its American counterpart) and operate the ship, but the world of carrier operations is an extremely complex and dangerous. The ship's crew and the embarked air wing must work seamlessly to provide a ready warship capable of tackling a variety of threats. This alone took the U.S. Navy decades to accomplish, and there is no way China could achieve a similar level of proficiency in just four years.

Fighter jets and human aircrews coexisting on 4.5 acres of flight deck is not an inherently safe thing. It takes decades of developing procedures, standards, and training to make a safe, efficient carrier deck environment.
The Chinese carrier is also something of a homebody, a rarity for aircraft carriers. Liaoning's American counterparts regularly span the globe, traveling from Virginia to the Persian Gulf, or San Diego to the South China Sea. Even
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has traveled from its home base in Arctic waters all the way to the eastern Mediterranean.

By contrast Liaoning has never ventured far from the Chinese coastline, preferring to exercise in nearby locations such as the Yellow Sea—essentially China's Gulf of Mexico. This implies the PLAN is insecure either about the crew's ability to handle the ship or the reliability of the ship's propulsion system. Either reason would be enough to declare the ship unfit for combat.

Another reason why Liaoning is not combat ready is that according to China's Global Times the ship is home to 1,000 noncommissioned officers and 42 petty officers whose experience in the Navy amounts to 20 years or more. These personnel are a brain trust that will be expected to teach crews manning China's
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how to operate the ship. If Liaoning were sunk in combat, the loss of these personnel would hurt even more than the loss of the ship itself.

Despite Beijing's boasting, Liaoning is likely exactly what analysts predicted it would be—a training ship that will never stray far from the Chinese coastline.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Registered Member
Kyle Mizokami doesn't believe the Liaoning is ready for combat, as claimed by the PLAN. The part that's eye catching is he also doesn't believe she will "never" stray far from China's coastal regions. That's an irrational thing to say, because never (in the ship's service time) is a long time, and 'show the flag' goodwill visits will likely happen all over the world.

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He doesn't understand the difference between a seed carrier and this mythological "training carrier". Liaoning is a seed carrier, and like all other seed capabilities it is meant to be combat capable while also serving a predominantly training role.


Also, I would like to say that the kind of constructive critique you've given to this article is what would be welcomed for your posting of J-20 articles in the J-20 thread. i.e.: being active in calling out irrational and illogical claims when you post an article, instead of letting them slide which implies that you agree with their content.
 

Yodello

Junior Member
Registered Member
The goodwill visits, as you mentioned, is a certainty.
It doesn't get anymore anti-china than Kyle Mizokami. He just keeps on publishing non-stop crap.
He himself mentions in the article that "Even
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has traveled from its home base in Arctic waters all the way to the eastern Mediterranean." But he doesn't believe that the much better maintained Liaoning is capable of doing the same or even more? His logic is weird.
 

shen

Senior Member
Kyle Mizokami doesn't believe the Liaoning is ready for combat, as claimed by the PLAN. The part that's eye catching is he also doesn't believe she will "never" stray far from China's coastal regions. That's an irrational thing to say, because never (in the ship's service time) is a long time, and 'show the flag' goodwill visits will likely happen all over the world.

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" Another reason why Liaoning is not combat ready is that according to China's Global Times the ship is home to 1,000 noncommissioned officers and 42 petty officers whose experience in the Navy amounts to 20 years or more."

more than half the crew on Liaoning are NCO?
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Kyle Mizokami doesn't believe the Liaoning is ready for combat, as claimed by the PLAN. The part that's eye catching is he also doesn't believe she will "never" stray far from China's coastal regions. That's an irrational thing to say, because never (in the ship's service time) is a long time, and 'show the flag' goodwill visits will likely happen all over the world.

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There are two things the CV and the CAW i think the first get " IOC " US term for the 2nd less sure and in more don' t have her full endowment of J-15 right now.
 

Quickie

Colonel
The goodwill visits, as you mentioned, is a certainty.
It doesn't get anymore anti-china than Kyle Mizokami. He just keeps on publishing non-stop crap.
He himself mentions in the article that "Even
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has traveled from its home base in Arctic waters all the way to the eastern Mediterranean." But he doesn't believe that the much better maintained Liaoning is capable of doing the same or even more? His logic is weird.

Probably the same kind of logic of some fanbois of yesteryear who would have themselves smugly believe the Chinese Navy is not capable of blue water operation. And when the anti piracy operation did prove otherwise, it is a non-event as if it is to be expected since we're talking about a 4000 ton or more military ships. :rolleyes:
 

Intrepid

Major
Who can show me night ops of other countrys with combat ready carriers in the past like Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, France, India, Italy, Netherlands, Russia, Spain, Thailand or United Kingdom?
 
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