Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
it's kind of unbelievable to me the amount of time and money India spent to buy 36 aircraft that is not stealth. If they had gotten off their high horses, they could've replenished their forces with some super hornets, which would've been cheaper and fit their requirements. They might have purchased 72 of them, but they wanted that extra little bit of capability, which frankly won't matter that much against 5th generation aircraft. Or they could've gotten Mig-35s, which would've been the least capable, but cheap enough to actually achieve the original requirement of 126 MRCA.

They wanted tech transfer, which was "no go" for Americans.
Frankly speaking, it isn't in most delicate part(raytheon radars) even now, bur Indians after French lesson now are more into reality of tech transfer.
So, net winners are Dassault(nice contract), Sukhoi(nice diversity you got there, comrade) and Tejas(the unsinkable).
Looser is, well, IAF.

From pure fantasy point of view(obviously, IMHO):
Best possible scenario for IAF would be Gripen-NG instead of both MRCA&Tejas in high-low mix of two aircraft with MKI. Impossible in real world since, well, Tejas.
Second best is probably super hornet - it's the only one to make this 3-legged approach viable. Cheap enough for numbers, brings necessary capability.

Mig-35 is "no" in same world with su-3x family. Sad but true.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
We can expect inflation and the prices to only go up a little bit too. Afterward, the Indian's might be reducing the number of purchases of Rafales perhaps?
I am not sure i think the price signed durind a deal don't change later for all deals.
And i see remains maybe possible more with China and Pakistan IAF say needs for minimum 6 Sqns...
And main problem Tejas very late
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
The mind truly boggles at what they are playing at.

The deal works out at $242m per plane on average! They could be having F35s for that kind of money, and still have change left.

Although given their track record, if India does go for F35, they will probably somehow end up paying half a billion per jet in the end.

The Russians must be taking note to adjust up their PAKFA prices to bring them in line with the price point this deal just set.
Your not aware about his deal, 242 mill $ a Rafale ! which oviously include other things :

PARIS and NEW DELHI — India has signed a contract for 36 Rafale fighter jets, manufacturer Dassault Aviation said.

“France and India signed today [Sept. 23] the contract for the acquisition of 36 Rafale by India,” the company said in a statement. The spokesman for Dassault declined to give financial details.

According to a source in the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD), the order is worth about €7.89 billion (US $8.85 billion).

France is expected to invest 30 percent of the total order cost in India's military aeronautics-related research programs and 20 percent into local production of Rafale components to fulfill the mandatory offsets under the deal.

Of the total reported amount,
€3.42 billion is for the cost of the platform;
another €1.8 billion is for support and infrastructure supplies;
€1.7 billion will be spent to meet India-specific changes on the aircraft;
€710 million is the additional weapons package;
and €353 million is the cost of performance-based logistics support, the MoD official said.

The first of the jets from France is to be delivered in 36 months, by September 2019, and the entire lot over the following 30 months.

According to an Indian Air Force (IAF) official, Dassault will make India-specific changes to the aircraft and mount new-generation missiles, like Meteor and Scalp, adding extra capability beyond India's immediate adversaries.

The Meteor is a beyond-visual-range, air-to-air missile with a range of more than 150 kilometers, whereas Scalp is a long-range, air-launched cruise missile with a range of 300 kilometers.

Under a logistics-support agreement,
Dassault will ensure that at least 75 percent of the fleet remains operational or air worthy at any given time.

"This would mean at any given time there will be 27 Rafale aircraft ready for operation," an IAF official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

IAF has not procured any new fighter jets since the start of this century, the last one being the Sukhoi 30-MKI from Russia that was first ordered in the mid-1990s and later produced under license at state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited facilities in India.

"There is an option of repeat clause for 18 Rafale aircraft. Thirty-six is [the] first batch, which could be repeated again. India is short on inventory and more could be ordered," the IAF official said.

The service's fighter aircraft strength is depleting against the required strength of 44 squadrons (one squadron is 18 aircraft). India has 33 squadrons with planes like MiG21s and MiG27s, due to retire in the next 10 years.

"There is an option of repeat clause for 18 Rafale aircraft. Thirty-six is [the] first batch, which could be repeated again. India is short on inventory and more could be ordered," the IAF official said.

Ankur Gupta, a defense analyst with Ernst and Young India, said: "There is obviously a requirement of at least 100 more, but that is a question to be debated sometime later. As of now, this is what we have and we will make do with. Let us not forget the options for 18 more that could be signed anytime over the next three-odd years."


Singh says induction of Rafale in to the IAF would tremendously enhance the IAF operational preparedness and capability as it would have excellent operational availability.

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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Your not aware about his deal, 242 mill $ a Rafale ! which oviously include other things :

PARIS and NEW DELHI — India has signed a contract for 36 Rafale fighter jets, manufacturer Dassault Aviation said.

“France and India signed today [Sept. 23] the contract for the acquisition of 36 Rafale by India,” the company said in a statement. The spokesman for Dassault declined to give financial details.

According to a source in the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD), the order is worth about €7.89 billion (US $8.85 billion).

France is expected to invest 30 percent of the total order cost in India's military aeronautics-related research programs and 20 percent into local production of Rafale components to fulfill the mandatory offsets under the deal.

So there will be quite a bit of local work as well as French re-investment, a good deal for India, with guaranteed serviceability of 75%, which is considerably better than anything they have gotten from the Russians. The Rafael will be a very happy airplane, and the Indian Air Force Jockey's will love it to pieces, it will be a very sought after assignment.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Your not aware about his deal, 242 mill $ a Rafale ! which oviously include other things :

PARIS and NEW DELHI — India has signed a contract for 36 Rafale fighter jets, manufacturer Dassault Aviation said.

€3.42 billion is for the cost of the platform;
€1.7 billion will be spent to meet India-specific changes on the aircraft;
I believe then that the actual cost of the aircraft themselves to INdia is:

3.42 billion Euros + 1.7 billion Euros equals 5.12 billion Euros which is 5.74 billion US Dollars.

So, 36 aircraft for 5.74 billion is something like $160 million dollars per aircraft...then you add all that other...support, weapons packages, etc.

Still, $160 million per aircraft is a LOT of money.
 

Tri Nitro Toluene

Junior Member
Registered Member
it's kind of unbelievable to me the amount of time and money India spent to buy 36 aircraft that is not stealth. If they had gotten off their high horses, they could've replenished their forces with some super hornets, which would've been cheaper and fit their requirements. They might have purchased 72 of them, but they wanted that extra little bit of capability, which frankly won't matter that much against 5th generation aircraft. Or they could've gotten Mig-35s, which would've been the least capable, but cheap enough to actually achieve the original requirement of 126 MRCA.
Well, I know that politics on SD on Defense Threads may not be allowed but leftist goverment had lot of blunders since the independence.

From a permanent UNSC Seat and official recognition as a nuclear power to the buying out strategic assets and ports which are today a trouble for us, every opportunity even knocking our door was kicked out and we are still struggling for even great power status.
Never let homegrown industry come up.

How many times national interest was sacrified for personal fame?
Great Plans with loud mouth but no implementation.
Overall, a poor economic record too, if there INC was not there in power for 60 years, India would have become much better place for living than it's today.
Rafael deal was one of them. Buying 126 MRCAs for high cost, taking years for signing the deal, inflation in it's cost further complicated the problem.
New government of India had to buy a smaller fleet hence because it won't be good that we pull out completely from such a big deal.
Further, Indigenization rate has been enhanced to 50% and exports doubled (targeted for $2 billions in 2 years). And what I call something is happening.

I don't think India will buy more Rafaels. Will look for other one.

Moreover, AMCA may not be being discussed on SD, the project is still alive and progressing well. I will put reports and official documents when I have time.
 

timepass

Brigadier
I believe then that the actual cost of the aircraft themselves to INdia is:

3.42 billion Euros + 1.7 billion Euros equals 5.12 billion Euros which is 5.74 billion US Dollars.

So, 36 aircraft for 5.74 billion is something like $160 million dollars per aircraft...then you add all that other...support, weapons packages, etc.

Still, $160 million per aircraft is a LOT of money.

Maybe kick backs & under table incentives.....Soon the leaks will come out...
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
€1.7 billion will be spent to meet India-specific changes on the aircraft;
Curious new F3R Block received by French AF for 2018 capable use Meteor, new designator pod, Spectra upgraded etc... yet funded but maybe things interesting a Brahmos A or Nhirbay planned :eek:o_O
But for 36 useless.

EW pod, never see...
The F3R standard, conditioned by the arrival of the Meteor missile, comprend107:
The addition in 2010 Thales radar RBE2 an active antenna (AESA) with a thousand transceivers gallium arsenide modules instead of one wave tube (TOP) Note 21 and allowing an increase 50% of the capacity;

A new version of the OSF, OSF-IT, which saw the elimination of double obsolete infrared channel and be satisfied with an improved TV channel;

The integration of an infrared detector missile launch (DDM-NG) Sagem and Thales / MBDA SPECTRA;

an evolution of the body HP (high pressure) of the reactor, called M88-2 Stage 4 Pack CGP (Global Cost of Ownership), allowing a reduction in the cost of maintenance with a lifetime increased to 50% for certain rotating parts critics;

The development of an electromagnetic power jamming pod, like the EA-18G Growler US;

The addition of laser designation pod Thales Damocles, conferring bombing capability 70km day and night. Its infrared sensor operating in an average band allows it to retain its effectiveness in hot weather and / or wet. It allows to drop, independently, the laser-guided bomb GBU-24 Paveway III of 1162 kg;

The integration of a satellite antenna (SATCOM)

Possibly adapting the rocket 68 mm developed for the Eurocopter Tiger, or even a laser guided rocket, also common to both devices (Rafale / Tiger).
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