H-20 bomber (with H-X, JH-XX)

Hyperwarp

Hyperwarp

Captain
newguy02 said:
Looks like the general consensus now is that the first prototype will fly around 2018, so if the Y-20 is anything to go by, the H-20 should enter service around the 2021-2022 timeframe.
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Very unlikely. Y-20 is a conventional transport plane. H-20 is much much more complicated bird. It is a flying wing and throughout history even if we include all the B-2, YB-35/YB-49 there are probably less than 30 actual flying wings of that size.
 
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weig2000

Captain
Hyperwarp said:
Very unlikely. Y-20 is a conventional transport plane. H-20 is much much more complicated bird. It is a flying wing and throughout history even if we include all the B-2, YB-35/YB-49 there are probably less than 30 actual flying wings of that size.
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The H-X Bomber program was officially approved in 2013, it appears. It'll probably take 10-15 years to develop. So it'll likely enter service between 2025 and 2030.
 
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newguy02

Junior Member
Registered Member
Hyperwarp said:
Very unlikely. Y-20 is a conventional transport plane. H-20 is much much more complicated bird. It is a flying wing and throughout history even if we include all the B-2, YB-35/YB-49 there are probably less than 30 actual flying wings of that size.
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Are you referring to the 2018 date or the 2021/2022 one? If it was the latter, I was just speculating based on the fact that the Y-20 is the biggest aircraft that XAC has developed, I do agree with you that it'll take longer due to, as you said, being much more complicated, the 2018 date was something I read about on Huitong's site and the Chinese BBS seems to have the consensus that the H-20 will fly around the 2018-19 timeframe.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
latenlazy said:
Not sure why they stuck a DSI on it since it isn't a fighter...
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Besides what delft said, I think DSI is still very beneficiary to a subsonic bomber for air compression in the high subsonic flight regime. My understanding of DSI is that its application is not limited to fighter.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Question for anyone who cares to answer:

Why do you think a subsonic flat flying bomber of 170 tonne is much more complicated than a 200 tonne cargo plane? I fully agree with the challenge of a flying wing design. But besides that, is there anything else that makes a bomber more complicated? I don't think just because it can shoot and kill.
 
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chinois49

New Member
Registered Member
The problem with a plane like the H20/B2 like is money.
Henri K says the cost of ram coating for the J20 is around 300.000$/m². the aire of the H20 is around 400-600 m² => cost for ram coating 150.000.000-200.000.000$. What's need China? 15 H20 or 150 birds like Tu 22M or...B52 ;)
 
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weig2000

Captain
taxiya said:
Question for anyone who cares to answer:

Why do you think a subsonic flat flying bomber of 170 tonne is much more complicated than a 200 tonne cargo plane? I fully agree with the challenge of a flying wing design. But besides that, is there anything else that makes a bomber more complicated? I don't think just because it can shoot and kill.
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Aerodynamics and flight control are so much more difficult; there have been significantly less experience in this kind of aircraft and, in the case of China, none. Transport or cargo plane are completely different, there are much more experiences from both military and civil transport aircraft. There is also no need for a transport or cargo aircraft to take such a "weird" shape.

Stealth is another challenge that a cargo plane does not need to worry, in terms of shape and materials, and the subsequent maintenance cost.

Finally, the electronics will be much much more complex. Modern strategic bombers are much more than just a bomb truck. It needs sophisticated communication, navigation, detection and defense electronics.

So, put simply, in terms of difficulty: H-X > J-20 > Y-20.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
chinois49 said:
The problem with a plane like the H20/B2 like is money.
Henri K says the cost of ram coating for the J20 is around 300.000$/m². the aire of the H20 is around 400-600 m² => cost for ram coating 150.000.000-200.000.000$. What's need China? 15 H20 or 150 birds like Tu 22M or...B52 ;)
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Is this answer to my question?

If so, my answer is I may prefer 15 H20. I would guess PLA shares the same thought IF they choose a stealthy bomber over a supersonic one (H18/H20) as the rumors say. The reason is B52 has no chance in a shoot out with a capable opponent in the air closer to the opponent. Tu22M has the advantage of speed, but China can't make the engine, nor do I believe that advantage is sufficient to defeat enemy air-defense.
 
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Skywatcher

Captain
taxiya said:
Question for anyone who cares to answer:

Why do you think a subsonic flat flying bomber of 170 tonne is much more complicated than a 200 tonne cargo plane? I fully agree with the challenge of a flying wing design. But besides that, is there anything else that makes a bomber more complicated? I don't think just because it can shoot and kill.
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Well, they have to integrate all the avionics and EW suite, as well as perfecting what looks like a rotary bomb bay.
 
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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
weig2000 said:
Aerodynamics and flight control are so much more difficult; there have been significantly less experience in this kind of aircraft and, in the case of China, none. Transport or cargo plane are completely different, there are much more experiences from both military and civil transport aircraft. There is also no need for a transport or cargo aircraft to take such a "weird" shape.

Stealth is another challenge that a cargo plane does not need to worry, in terms of shape and materials, and the subsequent maintenance cost.

Finally, the electronics will be much much more complex. Modern strategic bombers are much more than just a bomb truck. It needs sophisticated communication, navigation, detection and defense electronics.

So, put simply, in terms of difficulty: H-X > J-20 > Y-20.
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Thanks for listing these points. But I am not convinced because I have considered all these points before I put out the question.

China's lack of bomber experience is not equal to the complicity between bomber and transport. I have said of flying wing being a real challenge. But I am asking a general question regarding bomber. A B-52 would be a good example, is it more complicated than a C-17? A Tu-22M3 being supersonic is like flying wing, that is a real challenge, but my question is about a supposed Chinese B-2 which excluded this challenge.

Stealth and electronics are least concern of mine as I don't see the size of the plane makes a difference in their application.

So I am back to my question again. Besides Flying Wing, is there anything?
 
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