055 DDG Large Destroyer Thread

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Jeff Head

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@Jeff Head .... is it common to have only one CIWS for the size of the ship (13,000 tons), I thought it would have 3 or even 4 CIWS
There really are two.

A Type 1130 CIWS forward, and a FL-3000N launcher aft.

If they can quad pack a short-to-medium range missile in the VLS then they really end up with three zones of defense.

- Long range area coverage with the long range missiles
- Medium range area coverage with the medium to short range missiles
- Short range, Close In coverage with the Medium o short range missiles and the CIWS systems.

That's the type of thing you need.

Then with the Type 052D you have the same type of coverage where their coverage can overlap and compliment each other.
 

Iron Man

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Long range SAMs can potentially cover targets all the way down to the upper bounds of short range (15-20km) depending on the missile. The HHQ-9 can do this based on a video I saw recently of it downing a sea-skimming target. The SM-2 likely cannot cover such ranges due to its high-arcing ballistic trajectory, which gives it superior maximum range compared to the HHQ-9 but leaves it unable to attack targets at shorter ranges.

The only real benefits of a medium range missile in ships like the 052D and 055 are the potential ability to quad-pack them into each VL cell, and of course cost. A non-quadpackable MR missile like the HHQ-16 is not a good choice for the 052D and 055 given its sole benefit is cost savings; it brings nothing else to the table that the HHQ-9 does not bring, including medium range capability. The much-hyped DK-10, if it can in fact be quad-packed, would be a much better candidate.

I also think there is actually a fourth range category: "point blank", to refer to gun-based CIWS whose maximum effective ranges are only 2-4km, much less than the actual short ranges of missile-based CIWS like RAM and HHQ-10 which are more like 10-15km.
 

Blitzo

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The step structure does not "solve" this problem, it is probably more like an acknowledgement that the VLS may go no further forward, and given the available topside deck space as a result, let's put something useful there, like this structure.

Okay, well I suppose it is a possible configuration... But it largely depends on whether the mock up platform deck is representative of the real ship's deck level at that part of the ship.

(Let's call it the amidships weather deck for ease of reference)


The step structure is not an elevated platform for the purpose of placing masts and radomes. Masts and radomes don't actually need a structure underneath them, just a tall enough mast or mount. These step structures serve some other purpose, whether it's as a radar room, or storage room, or for whatever other purpose. They use available deck space to its potential without incurring excessive cost in topside weight. I think this particular design philosophy is the same for the 052C, 052D, and 055.

Oh I'm not sure, I think it is quite reasonable to say that on the 052C/D, the step platform's reason for being there is to mount the Type 517 radar and radomes. This isn't to say that all radars or radomes "need" a structural base on every ship ever, but it's just the way they've decided to configure it on the 052C/D. Nor is this to suggest that providing a structural or elevated base for the radar and radomes is its only purpose; I expect that within the platform it can do other things like data processing capabilities, and probably some functions which are completely unrelated to the electronics mounted atop it at all.

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But ignoring what I think 052C/Ds platform is for, what do you think it is for?
Because from what I'm reading, are you saying the platform on 052C/D is meant to be indicative of the aft VLS bank's most forward boundary before it may interfere with the engine space (aka thus the platform indicates where the engine space itself may be)?


Also, I don't think the 052c/d has a "step platform".. it's more like a "stand alone island platform".


That particular definition is the only I found which refers to exposure to weather and sea, probably as a consequence of how it used to be with wooden sailing ships where the main deck was usually also the freeboard deck as well as the weather deck. The other ones all refer to a freeboard deck simply being the uppermost deck below which all bulkheads are watertight. This deck is essentially a thoroughfare deck allowing easy access from bow to stern for each watertight section below, which by design do not connect to each other via hatches, meaning people would have to travel up to the freeboard deck in order to go from one watertight section to the next. I know for sure in the Daring class the 2 deck is the freeboard deck. The 055 is constructed similarly, and it makes total sense that its 2 deck is also the freeboard deck.

Yes, that definition I found was the only one which mentions exposure to weather and sea as well; all the other ones seem much more brief and only talk about watertight bulkheads below, like you say.
I'm not sure if it is because the slide I found is BSing, or if the other definitions are incomplete. Because tbh I haven't found many complete resources that talk about this kind of thing (naval architecture), and most sites with the brief description of freeboard seem to be more general in nature.

Still, this is only terminology. Maybe someone like Jeff with some experience in this area might be of some help(?)

Do you have a source for the 2 deck being Daring class's freeboard deck? It's not that I don't believe you, it is more that i haven't come across any clear references for freeboard decks of any naval surface combatant before.
 

FORBIN

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Long range SAMs can potentially cover targets all the way down to the upper bounds of short range (15-20km) depending on the missile. The HHQ-9 can do this based on a video I saw recently of it downing a sea-skimming target. The SM-2 likely cannot cover such ranges due to its high-arcing ballistic trajectory, which gives it superior maximum range compared to the HHQ-9 but leaves it unable to attack targets at shorter ranges.

Thinking you mean SM-2ER, 240 km ! very long 8 m vs 4.7 ! don' t fit in Mk-41 only for retired combattants with Mk-26 or 10, USN use now SM-2MR/RIM-66M-5 Block IIIB, range 118 km able AShM also as all SM-1/2 and soon SM-6.
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HHQ-9 120 up to 150 km, maybe exist an HHQ-9B up to 200 km ?
 
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
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There really are two.

A Type 1130 CIWS forward, and a FL-3000N launcher aft.

If they can quad pack a short-to-medium range missile in the VLS then they really end up with three zones of defense.

- Long range area coverage with the long range missiles
- Medium range area coverage with the medium to short range missiles
- Short range, Close In coverage with the Medium o short range missiles and the CIWS systems.

That's the type of thing you need.

Then with the Type 052D you have the same type of coverage where their coverage can overlap and compliment each other.

You mean DK-10A a variant of PL-12, 50 km, 5,1 x 0,26 m
Personnaly i am not sure is in service on 052D, same for LACM CJ-10 or other designation.
 

FORBIN

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I also think there is actually a fourth range category: "point blank", to refer to gun-based CIWS whose maximum effective ranges are only 2-4km, much less than the actual short ranges of missile-based CIWS like RAM and HHQ-10 which are more like 10-15km.
Yep and Ciws with SAM are much more effective vs aircrafts, range of others eventualy angle are very limited you fired much more far with a 57 mm.
 

Iron Man

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But ignoring what I think 052C/Ds platform is for, what do you think it is for?
Because from what I'm reading, are you saying the platform on 052C/D is meant to be indicative of the aft VLS bank's most forward boundary before it may interfere with the engine space (aka thus the platform indicates where the engine space itself may be)?


Also, I don't think the 052c/d has a "step platform".. it's more like a "stand alone island platform".
I'll just call it the "weather deck platform" from now on. Or actually just "platform". I don't really know what it's for, but I can guess why it's where it is, namely that it's extra usable internal work space for the crew on the weather deck that would otherwise just be flat deck space. I think the rear of this platform is not necessarily where the aft engine room starts. There could easily be some wiggle room of several meters. The platform extends all the way back to the edge of the VLS modules probably to maximize use of available deck space. You can see the same thing on the 052D. The rear VLS modules are squeezed fairly tightly between the helicopter deckhouse and the weather deck platform.

Do you have a source for the 2 deck being Daring class's freeboard deck? It's not that I don't believe you, it is more that i haven't come across any clear references for freeboard decks of any naval surface combatant before.
Indeed I do. It comes from the "Type 45 Destroyer Owner's Workshop Manual", which can be purchased on Amazon (which is where I got it from):

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I definitely recommend getting this book. It provides a wealth of information on how modern warships are designed and built and how they function. It is richly illustrated with color photos and schematics and provides a very detailed look at how sailors sleep, eat, work and play in a modern high-tech warship environment.

Page 47 shows a schematic of the various deck locations on the Daring class. Page 57 shows a schematic of the main thoroughfare passageway on 2 deck connecting all the watertight compartments below, which is colloquially known as the "Main Drag". Page 55 has photos of this passageway and also a description of the Main Drag being the only means of moving from one watertight compartment to the next.
 

Iron Man

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Thinking you mean SM-2ER, 240 km ! very long 8 m vs 4.7 ! don' t fit in Mk-41 only for retired combattants with Mk-26 or 10, USN use now SM-2MR/RIM-66M-5 Block IIIB, range 118 km able AShM also as all SM-1/2 and soon SM-6.
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HHQ-9 120 up to 150 km, maybe exist an HHQ-9B up to 200 km ?
No, I mean all later versions of the SM-2 (SM-2MR), which fly the high ballistic trajectory with terminal top-down attack. Superior maximum range, but this also created a gap between short and long range air defense missiles, though this gap has since been very well plugged by the ESSM. BTW the SM-2ER with the Block 72 booster (i.e. SM-2ER Block IV) will fit into the Mk 41, though my understanding is that it is now defunct, being superseded by the SM-6, which is basically the same exact missile except with an AMRAAM active seeker. You're thinking of the SM-2ER Block II missile, which was too long for the Mk 41.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
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From Henri K
He say as navyreco 4 in order first ready for 2019 normaly

Main points

Detection side, the Type 055 radar should equip 4 active antenna 346A Type S-band, as on the 052D and Type 16 aircraft carrier Liaoning. The long-range radar metric Type 517B should be replaced. It should have X band radars also on the main mast.

The different types of missile that will be in the 112 or 128-ship vertical launch silos are its main offensive and defensive arsenal.

We may mention for example the anti-aircraft missile HQ-9B long range and medium-range HQ-16C (??), the anti-ship missile YJ-18A and the cruise missile YJ-18.

these missiles shot from the management and conduct would share the same interface and the same combat system.

It seems that the anti-submarine missile Yu-8 Vertical Launch team who frigates Type 054A is not part of the arsenal of the Type 055. As for the ABM missile HQ-26, it should not be at aboard the destroyer either, at least not yet.

Self-defense of the ship will be provided by the main gun H / PJ-38 changed, the CIWS H / PJ-11 rate exceeding 10 000rd / min, and the CIWS to HQ-10 missile, like the 052D type.

I have yet see sometimes an YJ-18 LACM for 052D, IIRC 093B also and in this case replace naval CJ-10 ? which exist ?

The first Type 055 in final assembly in Shanghai
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