HQ-19/SC-19 Chinese THAAD

Hey SD Forum,

New comer here. I found the photo of the two-stage missile, which is believed to be the HQ-19 aka SC-19. It should be comparable to US Army's THAAD (Terminal High Altitude Area Defense) system.



Sorry for the low-res of the pics.

I didn't find any similar thread, but may this post can be combined to some ASAT thread.

Welcome aboard and thanks for the pictures!

The SC-19 is more like the GBI, at least in terms of size (both are 14 ton class missiles).

The HQ-9B, HQ-19 [THAAD counterpart], HQ-26 [SM-3 counterpart] and HQ-29 [PAC-3 counterpart] are designed primarily for Anti Ballistic Missile capabilities. While the HQ-9A air defense variant of the HQ-9 series is very well attested, the remaining theater missile defense interceptors are poorly attested, and verge on being little more than rumors.

It is believed by some that the Russian S-400 Triumf surface-to-air missile system was a joint development program, but others say that HQ-19 has nothing to do with S-400 [according to one source, "and I say this with certainty." China has shown interest in acquiring Russia’s newest long-range SAM, the S-400 TRIUMF, but a contract has not been signed yet and Russian officials have stated China would not receive the S-400 until at least 2017. This SAM can target aircraft, cruise missiles, and tactical and medium-range ballistic missiles.

The only official document that clearly states the designation HQ-19 is a document entitled "The needs analysis propulsion system of tactical missiles and direction of development for solid propellant engine", dating from 2000 and written by the Institute 41 CCAC Group (China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation). This paper analyzes firstly the risks and types of conflict that China may face up to 2010 (The document is dated 2000, and speaks of "in 10 years"), and gives types of tactical missiles to develop a priority to deal with these external threats. In subsection 3.4, a priority is given to the need for an anti-missile system capable of intercepting high altitude heads ballistic missile whose range is 3000km, phase re-entry. And in response to this paragraph 3.4, in section 4.4 it is clearly stated "Developing solid propellant engines that meet the needs of anti-missile systems area at high altitude," a concept close to American THAAD ( Terminal High Altitude Area Defense).

Finally, in paragraph 5.4 of the document, it gives the status of the development of the HQ-19 motor - a solid propellant engine demonstration with a specific impulse of 260s, mass ratio of 0.85 and able to provide the necessary power for maneuverability 60g to track down the head of ballistic missile, a "completed the design phase, fabrication and testing", "testing validated the carbon fiber shell and propellant N-15B."

The HQ-19 missile is a project launched in the late 1990s. In 1995 the Chinese started serious studies of a kinetic kill vehicle KKV under Program 863. In 1986, to meet the global challenges of new technology revolution and competition, four Chinese scientists, WANG Daheng, WANG Ganchang, YANG Jiachi, and CHEN Fangyun, jointly proposed to accelerate China’s high-tech development. With strategic vision and resolution, the late Chinese leader Mr. DENG Xiaoping personally approved the National High-tech R&D Program, namely the 863 Program. Implemented during three successive Five-year Plans, the program has boosted China’s overall high-tech development, R&D capacity, socio-economic development, and national security. In April 2001, the Chinese State Council approved continued implementation of the program in the 10th Five-year Plan. As one of the national S&T program trilogy in the 10th Five-year Plan, 863 Program continues to play its important role.

In 1999, the first Chinese KKV made the suspension tests successfully flight, China became the second country in the world to have mastered the technology. The first test of V & V was held in 2003 with success. It was in final certification. HQ-19 has a KKV of about 35kg, the system performance would be similar to the US THAAD. Another R & D document mentions a technology demonstration at the HQ-19 engines in 2000, led by the Academy 4 CCAC group. The demonstration also validated "hull carbon fiber" and "rocket N-15B".

(in Chinese)

Official announcement of the HQ-19 on CCTV. It didn't mention the actual name, but it is believed to be HQ-19.

Ab missile would have been served better by containerized solution. Having the missile exposed during its entire deployment cant be good for the design. (it would have to be made more robust to maintain same performance and availability)

Plus, as skywatcher said, this is a large missile, much larger than either sm3 or thaad.

Henri K is very astute man. It is very rare someone who can separate fact from BS from torrent of Chinese weapon program
He content that China has low atmo ABM anti terminal attack missile(aka PAC3) since 2013 and There is ongoing project to either update it of come up with better missile



In the panoply of Chinese anti-missile missiles, the HQ-29 reference has always been associated with the system called "low endo-atmospheric ballistic missile defense", or "low endo", that is, The interception takes place during the terminal flight phase of the assaulting craft, at less than 30 km altitude.

Although its development would be launched more than 13 years ago and its first validation shot in May 2011 was a success, officially the HQ-29 system does not exist. There is virtually nothing about it in publicly accessible sources. It is only assumed that it is the 2nd academy of the Chinese aerospace group CASIC which is in charge of its general design and integration.

However, a video broadcast in early February by the 6th Academy of the same Chinese group seems to have revealed several interesting elements about a " low- end terminal kinetic missile system" (末端 低层 反导 拦截 系统).

So, whether it's the HQ-29 or not, it's an ABM system similar to the famous MIM- 104F of the US Army, better known as PAC-3 .


So we will try to dig around four specific points revealed in this video.

HQ-29: Operational since 2012?
Before starting, however, the video does not speak directly to the 6th Academy of CASIC - a subsidiary of the group specializing in the design and production of solid propellant engines - but a team from Institut 210 , Itself attached under the 6th Academy, which is devoted to systems of attitude control and orbital control.


The 2nd prize certificate obtained by Institut 210 for their achievements in Project 8102 (Source: CASIC)

The first interesting thing that can be found in the video is a certificate, and not just any, but that of the 2nd prize at the National Awards of Scientific and Technological progress 2013.

These awards, presented once a year, represent the highest award in China that can be awarded to a team or researcher for their achievements in science and technology. It is a kind of Chinese Nobel Prize.

This second prize is therefore awarded at the beginning of 2014 to the Institute 210 for their achievements in the "low-altitude terminal anti-missile system". We also learn that this system also has a code name - Project 8102 .

We can then talk about several interesting points around this 2nd prize. First, to award "only" a second prize to a set of crucial components such as attitude control and orbital control thrusters for a missile defense system may mean that this is no longer a "technological feat" for the country , Simply a rather important achievement.

Secondly, the rules of the Chinese Grand Prix say that for projects in the defense field, only those who have already been "equipped" for at least one year can submit their candidature to the Commission des Grands Prix .

So since this 2nd prize was awarded in early 2014 for a file filed in 2013, this means that Project 8102, or at least the system control boosters, is in staffing (at least limited) since 2012.

And this coincides with the information that the first "low end" validation test took place in May 2011. In other words, HQ-29, if it really designates Project 8102, could have joined the ranks of the army Of Chinese air in 2012.

Of course, it is necessary to wait for other official information to confirm this working hypothesis.

(cont)

HQ-29 = Project 8102?
The second point of interest is this "Project 8102", unknown until now. Extensive research to identify its origin and outline has hardly done anything.

There was indeed a Project 8102 signed in March 1958 by the then Minister of Defense of China, to build a rocket development and testing center in China. But this project was already completed in 1964.

Another Project 8102 exists today, at least until 2016, in the aerospace field. There are several tenders for construction projects, launched by the China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology (CALT), a subsidiary of another major Chinese aerospace group CASC and builder of the Longue Marche Chinese rockets .

For example, at least 6 subprojects identified as code 157-1, 169, 170, 171, 172 and 173-2 have been identified and involve several research departments and production entities belonging to CALT, notably In launch support systems, final assembly and testing, as well as specific materials.

The buildings involved in tenders are mainly production workshops and assembly plants, and there is even a sub-project for the construction of an aerodrome.

Some of these constructions started in March 2009, others were still in the tendering process in November 2016. This suggests that this Project 8102 would still be ongoing and the production concerning it started at least since 2009.

And let us assume that Project 8102, where these construction projects are associated, is the same as that of the low-end missile system we are talking about here, so that is to say that this program is the result of the collaboration of the two largest groups Chinese - CASIC and CASC - in the aerospace and missile field.

Unfortunately, there is no reason to associate the HQ-29 with this famous Project 8102, but under these two references, it is true that the same concept of antimissile interception is used.



HQ-29: Direct Impact Interception
Whatever the method of interception, whether by the nearby explosion, the destruction of the ballistic missile with a fragmentation charge, or by the direct impact with a kinetic kill vehicle (KKV), this always requires That the interceptor missile can point as long as possible on its target, and be able to maneuver "brutally" to change its trajectory.

If this first point depends on the ACS (Attitude Control System) thrusters - usually installed at the rear or front of the interceptor missile - to be addressed in the next paragraph, the second is based on DCS thrusters Divert Control System) which are usually installed by four around the missile barycenter.

The European anti-aircraft missiles Aster use a piloting mode called the PIF-PAF (Strong piloting - Strong aerodynamic piloting). For example, the DCS can be assimilated with the PIF in the case of Aster.

And in the video of Institut 210, there is just a passage where we see a Chinese engineer working on an industrial design of what could be a DCS of Project 8102 / HQ-29.

The object in the 2D plane resembles the DCS of the US missile missile RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 (also known as SM-3), also used in ballistic missile defense.



If all of the details in the video are all related to Project 8102 / HQ-29, then it can be almost certain that this Chinese low-end ABM system is also equipped with a KKV, which is justified by By the word "kinetic" in the full name of the system.

It would therefore be a system similar to the PAC-3 ERINT or MSE , also equipped with a KKV unlike other versions prior to MIM-104F Configuration 3.

The endowment of KKV by this Chinese anti-missile system is hardly surprising, remember that the first Chinese KKV, weighing 35 kg and also developed by the CASIC group, successfully completed its first suspension flight in 1999 , Making China the second country in the world to have tested such technologies.



HQ-29: Piloting in force by 160 micro-rockets
Unlike the Aster cited as an example in the preceding paragraph, the maneuverability of the PAC-3 ERINT or MSE missile is ensured by 180 solid rocket propellant rockets mounted in the forearm of the missile to increase the moment of the force - that they can also be called the ACS (Attitude Control System) thrusters.


PAC-3 ERINT

It should be noted that this technical choice adopted by the Americans is also very different from that of 9M96E2 of the Russian S-400 system , which opts for an aerodynamic configuration with four duck wings at the front and 24 micro-rockets around its barycentre.

The advantage of this choice of PAC-3 ERINT is its very high precision of aiming and its greater reactivity (compared to the aerodynamic control) in the terminal phase of flight, two qualities absolutely necessary for a direct impact of the KKV against its target, Therefore a destruction of the latter by kinetic energy.

In the case of Project 8102 / HQ-29, which would also have chosen this mode of destruction, as we saw in the previous paragraph, the choice of piloting must necessarily follow the same path.

And that's exactly what we saw in the video. In fact, two different passages can be seen machining a double missile body with a large number of "holes".


The ACS compartment of Project 8102 / HQ-29 (Source: CASIC)

If the count is good, there are 16 holes per row and 10 rows in total, ie 160 locations that would be dedicated to the installation of micro-rockets.

It is technically unclear why the Chinese did not pick up exactly the same number of impulse micro-rockets as the Americans, while R & D documents published by CASIC researchers and several Chinese universities have all studied configuration with 180 micro- Rockets. Perhaps this is in connection with the miniaturization of these rockets or the control of the total mass?



Anti-missile, a priority but targeted for China
With a level of competence finally limited enough, unfortunately we can not draw much more from this video. It should be noted, however, that the niche of its publication appears to have been carefully chosen, but not necessarily in relation to the recent SM-3 Block IIAtrial since the USS destroyer John Paul Jones, who conducted the test with Aegis Baseline 9.C2 system, as pointed out by some Chinese media.

A low-end ABM system is primarily for ballistic missile threats with a range of 1,000 km. To show that China has such a system at the moment when the United States tests a system "high end" or half-race, so in two distinct categories, would have no meaning and no usefulness.

On the other hand, for China's neighboring countries that already have or intend to develop SRBM ballistic missiles such as Taiwan and South Korea, this is a clear message of "defense by cancellation". This can therefore also be seen as an offensive message.

It is clear that, compared to the United States, the Chinese missile program is much smaller and less extensive. For the time being, China has , and now the possible entry into service of a "low endo" system "For shorter-range ballistic missiles.

The mid-race ICBM intercept segment, which is inefficient in today's technology, as well as propulsive phase defense, which is both burdensome and costly, does not seem to be the priority of the moment for China .

On the other hand, the country is continuing to develop long-range surveillance systems - a few have been in the files " " and " "for example.

All this shows that China's anti-missile defense strategy is highly targeted, with priority being given to near-term threats and technologically achievable targets in the short and medium term, and development therefore follows a certain pragmatism as has been seen in other areas.

In any case, the evidence that this 210 Institute video shows is certainly a small fragment of Project 8102, or HQ-29. So there are still plenty of puzzle pieces to collect before you can reveal its outline.

To be continued.

Henri K.



Share this article

There is something that I wish to address regarding Chinese ABM/ASAT missiles.

The January 11, 2010 ABM test involved a modified SC-19/KT-409 rocket booster mated to a HQ-19 seeker, allowing the system to intercept ballistic missiles warheads at fairly high altitude (note that the SC-19 is in the same weight class as the American GBI and the subsequent DN-1/2/3/, the latter of which can reach up to 36000 km in intercept altitude). There are also analysts who believe that the SC-19 is the same as the DN-1, but that's another story.

The actual test occurred at 250 km altitude and targeted a B-611 target vehicle (as per WIkileaks). A lot of subsequent reporters are using these parameters to claim that the test involved a HQ-19 missile, but that is not the entire story. The HQ-19 by itself should be comparable to the THAAD-ER or the Israeli Arrow-3 ABM systems; such systems would have difficulty intercepting a target at 250 km. Thus, this leads me to conclude that the 2010 and 2013 tests were not of the SC-19/DN-1's full capacity.

Given the sizes of the SC-19 and DN-2/3 missiles, as well as the performance of the latter (ability to intercept satellites at GEO), the SC-19 and/or DN-1 should be China's equivalent of the US GBI (Ground-Based Interceptor). It should also be noted that even though the DN-2/3 have not demonstrated ABM capabilities, the difference between a GEO ASAT and an ICBM midcourse interceptor lies in the seeker and software, both of which could easily be adapted from other existing systems, if not already (recall that the HQ-19's seeker was used in China's IRBM midcourse interception test).

Mysterious Missile Henri K speculation Sino SM3? AKA HQ26 for use in Type 55 destroyer?


According to , an offshore testing center of the Chinese navy conducted a rescue exercise in Bohai Bay, north China. The scenario simulates the ignition failure during a simultaneous firing of two missiles, and therefore had the objective of checking the effectiveness of the rescue teams in this kind of incidents.


The exercise in itself is nothing special, but a passage of the video revealed an unknown missile so far, launched from one of the Chinese vessels dedicated naval weapons testing.



The mysterious missile launched from a Class 909 test bench (Source: CCTV-7)

This missile seems to be composed of four parts - a large first stage painted black (unusual in the Chinese tests), a second conical trunk-shaped stage, then a third stage and the head which, diameter.

Its launching, according to the images, was carried out a priori "cold" - the missile is first ejected from its silo by a gas generator, before the first stage is switched on.

The size of the missile, based on the main mast of the Type 909, is estimated to be between 8.4 and 9 meters, with a diameter between 420 and 710 mm.


Calculation of the length of the missile using the height of the main mast of Type 909

Since the test firing is to take place at the end of October 2016 from a vertical launching system, it is likely that the latter is also installed on the last two classes of Chinese destroyer - Type 052D and Type 055 . This so-called universal VLS is precisely compatible with hot launch (using CCL silos, Concentric Canister Launcher) and cold.

And according to the Chinese military standard GJB-5860-2006 which expresses the characteristics to be respected by the system, this Chinese VLS has three launch modules of different length: 9 meters, 7 meters and 3.3 meters.


A VLS tube being installed in its silo on a Type 052D destroyer

Once all the data is spread, the question that now arises is - what is this Chinese naval missile?

Given its relatively large size, we have several options - an anti-submarine missile (ASROC), a naval cruise missile, a long-range anti-aircraft missile, or a naval ballistic missile.

Knowing that the Chinese navy has not planned to equip its last destroyers with ASROC missiles - missions dedicated to anti-submarine warfare are assigned to specialized frigates - one can therefore already rule out this first possibility .

For the new Class 055 destroyers, currently under construction in Shanghai and Dalian, the information we have today indicates that they will be equipped with a cruise missile to hit the targets on the ground. This naval cruise missile comes from the YJ-18 family , which is already available in several different versions, such as Surface-Ground?, Surface-Surface and Ground-Surface, similar to the Russian 3M54 missiles . We are talking about a certain kinship between these two families of missile naval.

And among the range of Russian missiles, there are just two variants that have a length close to 9 meters, it is the version 3M54T with the vertical launch, and version 3M14T , always with the vertical launch, dedicated to the strike Sea -Ground. Russia in particular fired 26 3M14T missiles in October 2015 against 11 targets in Syria, from the corvettes located in the Caspian Sea.

It is therefore possible that this Chinese missile is the Sea-Sol variant of YJ-18. But if the YJ-18s and the 3M54s are technologically linked, it should not have such a big difference in terms of external shape - the 3M14T has the same diameter everywhere.


The Chinese SAM HQ-9B system with a range> 200 km

As to the possibility of a long-range anti-aircraft missile, the probability appears to be near zero. And for good reason, the missile chosen for the anti-aircraft bubble of the last Chinese destroyers is the H / HQ-9B . His "earthly" twin, the HQ-9B , was exhibited at the Zhuhai Air Show in November 2016. According to the Chinese Air Force officers present there, the range of this missile is "over 200 Km ".

And although the HQ-9B is also cold launch, but its length is significantly less than 9 meters. Given its current scope, there does not seem to be a need to develop another system to go even further.

We then come to the fourth and last possibility, the missile ballistic missile HQ-26 . This missile, whose name is known since 2000, on a framework document published by the Chinese aerospace group CASC, has been under development for about ten years at SAST, a subsidiary of the CCAC. It is, to date, the only known Chinese naval anti-ballistic missile project.

According to this document, the HQ-26 is a so-called "high endo-atmospheric" ballistic missile, just like the HQ-19, but it is based on the ground. The missile's end-of-stroke maneuverability is ensured by a solid double-pulse propellant engine.

However, since the publication of this document in 2000, its name is only openly mentioned once, on the website of the Environmental Monitoring Center in Shaan'xi Province, which participated in a Logistics support in March 2014, for the development of solid propellant engine of HQ-19 and HQ-26. The report was also removed from the site some time later.

So we do not know what its size, what the performance is, and what is the state of its development. We have indeed a rumor from the corridor that the 1st and 2nd stages of the HQ-26 would have a diameter of 700 mm and a third stage of 400 mm. But all this has not been verified so far.

However, institutional publications that may be associated with the HQ-26 project, according to some analysts, have nevertheless surfaced from time to time. It is known, for example, that a call for tender has been launched for the double-pulse motor on the 3rd floor of a "certain missile", and , against the 6th Academy of another large Chinese aerospace group CASIC. The detailed design of this engine began since then.

It should be noted that the 3rd floor of the missile RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 (or simply SM-3 ), , is also a double pulse motor.


The double-pulse motor of the 3rd stage of missile SM-3 (Photo: Orbital ATK)

And in June 2014, the SAST, the entity responsible for the development of the HQ-26, published an article to talk about a team that has worked for 10 years on a "certain" project, a concept "totally new".

By pooling these elements, HQ-26 is thought to be in development, but it seems unlikely that it will be able to carry out validation trials conducted by the Chinese Navy after just two and a half years 3rd floor engine started.

So in your opinion, what is this mysterious Chinese naval missile? Vote for the choice you think is most likely, or leave a comment if your idea is not on the list.