The End of the Pivot to Asia?

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
US-led globalism is dying with the TPP
FInancial Times (London)

Edward Luce in Philadelphia

A U-turn on the trade deal she once backed would only confirm prejudices about Hillary Clinton

It is time to pronounce the Trans-Pacific Partnership clinically dead. Hillary Clinton had already put Barack Obama’s signature deal — the biggest US trade initiative in more than a decade — on life support when she came out against it last year. Donald Trump has vowed to scrap it, which meant that whoever took the White House would have pledged its demise. Yet the suspicion lingered that Mrs Clinton was simply following her husband’s bait-and-switch tactics. Bill Clinton ran strongly against the North American Free Trade Agreement in 1992 only to do whatever it took to ensure Nafta passed after he took office. On Tuesday, Terry McAuliffe, the governor of Virginia, and longtime friend of the Clintons, hinted that Mrs Clinton had exactly the same U-turn in mind for the 12-nation TPP. He was forced to disavow his words almost instantly. John Podesta, chairman of the Clinton campaign, tweeted that Mrs Clinton would be opposed to TPP before and after the election: “Period. Full Stop.”

It will not be the last time Mrs Clinton will be cajoled to reassure voters that she really means what she says. When she was secretary of state she described the TPP as the “gold standard” of trade deals — she was for it before she was against it. Mr Trump will lose no opportunity to hammer her on that implicit contradiction. So too will Bernie Sanders’ supporters, whose anti-TPP signs bedecked the Philadelphia convention hall on Monday. To them, and other doubters of Mrs Clinton, her actions on TPP will be the chief barometer of her integrity. Whatever wiggle room she still has will thus continue to shrink. But Mr Podesta left one key gap in his assurance that she would oppose TPP both as candidate and president — the lame duck Congress that will take place in the interregnum between November and January. This will be Mr Obama’s last chance to ratify TPP. His prospects were already looking shaky. Last year Congress passed the fast-track negotiating authority by just 10 votes. Most counts suggest that narrow margin has now vanished. Middle America’s antitrade backlash has only intensified.

How then could TPP rise from the dead? The only realistic scenario is that Mr Obama could somehow bludgeon the lame duck Congress to rush it on to the statute books after a landslide victory by Mrs Clinton. It is virtually inconceivable Mrs Clinton could reprise her husband’s Nafta pivot on TPP after taking office. Attempting that would drain her political capital in the first few months and toxify whatever chances she had of building a reputation as a trustworthy leader. Mr Sanders’ backers have already made it clear that the Democrats are ripe for a Tea Party-style takeover. A U-turn by Mrs Clinton would invite that fate by confirming every prejudice about Clintonite slipperiness. It would also kill her chances of enacting immigration reform, which she says will be her first priority in her first 100 days.

In other words, the TPP in its current form is dead — and it will be hard to bring it back to life in any other guise. The hit to America’s global leadership will be huge. Mr Obama and Mrs Clinton originally sold the deal as the economic plank of Washington’s “pivot to Asia”. It would set in stone the rules of engagement that China would have no choice but to follow. Nature abhors a vacuum. If TPP dies at America’s hands, it will be the end of an era. Allies in Asia will look increasingly to China for economic leadership. Europe’s equivalent deal, the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, will die with it. The era of US-led globalism will begin to unravel. It may well be a price worth paying — Mr Trump’s victory would sound the death knell of US globalism. But it is a steep one nonetheless.

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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
No, the Asian pivot will continue.

A lot of momentum already in place, and bases have been prepared for it as ell as agreements put in place with allies.

This is one Obama era initiative that will probably be recognized and continued...though it may very well change if Trump is elected because his terms with the allied nations will not be the same as Obamas. he will expect that they pay the US for bringing the forces to them, and not that the US fund it all.

So it may well be modified accordingly.

But, IMHO, on US owned and operated bases...it will continue.
 
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AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
If the terms of TPP are modified by the USA, everyone has to restart negotiations again, and they will very much be thinking what is the point if it just gets modified again.

And it has been noted that if all the US can offer is military forces in Asia, then the Asian economy will be led by China. Then if China plays its cards right, U.S. forces will be invited to leave.
 

flyzies

Junior Member
The pivot is more than just the TPP, but the TPP is the most central focus of the pivot. Jeff is right that the military aspects of the pivot will continue, but if the TPP gets the can, and without this central focus, the pivot would be very different to what Obama and Clinton imagined it would be when they started it. In other words, it would be a lot less effective.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
The Pivot will likely continue, even under a Trump administration, because Asia is the growth engine for decades to come, and even the domestically-focused President Trump will try and keep strong US presence in the region. And if it's President Hillary, then US will redouble Pivot and TPP efforts. You don't really think Hillary will drop TPP did you? Her administration will repackage it and call it something else, but TPP will be pushed to the hilt.
 

fatfreddy

New Member
Registered Member
The Pivot will likely continue, even under a Trump administration, because Asia is the growth engine for decades to come, and even the domestically-focused President Trump will try and keep strong US presence in the region. And if it's President Hillary, then US will redouble Pivot and TPP efforts. You don't really think Hillary will drop TPP did you? Her administration will repackage it and call it something else, but TPP will be pushed to the hilt.
Hi good morning. I think Clinton will bow to corporate interests in the end. She will say what is needed to get elected. I do agree however that any changes to terms will start a whole round of negotiations and that might be the killer. Time is not on her side. With every day the economic benefits of working with China grows stronger. Even the new Philippines President can see that US can provide bases but not money. The Malaysia PM already have to cut deals with China for the High Speed Railway project to save his 1MDB fiasco. When the AIIB start handing out loans (and US is not part of that), Indonesia will also fall in line. My humble opinion.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Hi good morning. I think Clinton will bow to corporate interests in the end. She will say what is needed to get elected. I do agree however that any changes to terms will start a whole round of negotiations and that might be the killer. Time is not on her side. With every day the economic benefits of working with China grows stronger. Even the new Philippines President can see that US can provide bases but not money. The Malaysia PM already have to cut deals with China for the High Speed Railway project to save his 1MDB fiasco. When the AIIB start handing out loans (and US is not part of that), Indonesia will also fall in line. My humble opinion.
Don't underestimate the Clintons' ability to sell ice to Eskimos, they're masters of deception. It's true President Hillary would be short on time, but as long as she has the support of key countries like Japan, Australia, Vietnam, and Canada, I think the deal will go through. Also, fear of China by Japan, Australia, and Vietnam means they'll support some changes to TPP, and the rest will probably go along after that. Bottom line is The Pivot will continue to be pushed, supported by a repackaged TPP.

The other side of the coin is also fairly clear. If China successfully reforms its economy from export/manufacturing-based to service/consumption-based, then it doesn't really matter what happens with Pivot and TPP. I say that because 10 to 20 years of a successfully transformed economy at about 6% per annum quality growth, backed up by RCEP, FTAAP, many bilateral FTAs, and reasonably well executed OBOR, will result in a dominant and sustainable economy that pretty much calls the shots around the world.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
The key point that was highlighted was that Clinton passing TPP will poison the rest of her domestic legislative agenda (eg. immigration reform).

Is that worth it?

Plus we now see some big business (the CEO of Ford) publicly speaking out against TPP. and presumably GM shares the same views.

===
Plus if China grows large enough, yes, I would agree that TPP won't matter as either:

1. China will join TPP/FTAAP as it will have changed the rules to favour it, or a hi-tech China will find the existing rules to its advantage.
2. China will be able to offer something better than TPP and peel off the existing members.

===
And when we talk about the Pivot to Asia, it's very much a project being pushed in the US by the *elites*. And we've seen all too clearly how voters are punishing the elites all around the world for not addressing local concerns.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
No, the Asian pivot will continue.

A lot of momentum already in place, and bases have been prepared for it as ell as agreements put in place with allies.

This is one Obama era initiative that will probably be recognized and continued...though it may very well change if Trump is elected because his terms with the allied nations will not be the same as Obamas. he will expect that they pay the US for bringing the forces to them, and not that the US fund it all.

So it may well be modified accordingly.

But, IMHO, on UIS owned and operated bases...it will continue.

Ofc !

Planned 60% of the US military Forces oriented toward the Asia-Pacific area mainly Navy, USMC and Air Force.

Yet almost do for SSN 30/52 : 57 %
Surface combattants DDG/CG 55 % 46 on 84 but the next 3 Zumwalt and 3 on the first 4 new Burke for Pacific.
 
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Blackstone

Brigadier
And when we talk about the Pivot to Asia, it's very much a project being pushed in the US by the *elites*. And we've seen all too clearly how voters are punishing the elites all around the world for not addressing local concerns.
It's true US elites push Pivot to Asia, but that's an incomplete view of it. Americans in general support engagement in Asia, with the understanding US is currently the guarantor of security. On the other hand, it's correct to say US elites push for military pivot more than the public, and polls show Americans have no interesting in conflicts in ECS or SCS over rocks.
 
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