PLAN Sovremenny DDG 136, 137, 138 & 139 Thread

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Is there something in those pages that state YJ-12 is carried on the 052D inside the universal? The diameter of YJ-12 being 0.75 m may be referring to the missile body itself without the inlets and fins. Even if it is referring to the entire missile body (which really would no longer be a "diameter"), there would be only 0.1 m space around the missile for the canister wall and the exhaust venting; that's 0.05 m or 5 cm on each side. This seems to be a very tight squeeze and possible not enough space to vent any significant exhaust.
 

antiterror13

Brigadier
Is there something in those pages that state YJ-12 is carried on the 052D inside the universal? The diameter of YJ-12 being 0.75 m may be referring to the missile body itself without the inlets and fins. Even if it is referring to the entire missile body (which really would no longer be a "diameter"), there would be only 0.1 m space around the missile for the canister wall and the exhaust venting; that's 0.05 m or 5 cm on each side. This seems to be a very tight squeeze and possible not enough space to vent any significant exhaust.

PLAN wouldn't accept it .... if it wont fit universal VLS
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
PLAN wouldn't accept it .... if it wont fit universal VLS

They might have accepted it, if they knew from the start that they weren't interested in compromising the YJ-12's potential capability by limiting its size to the universal VLS, and were willing to compromise that YJ-12s could only be launched from ships using dedicated slant launchers.

So I agree with the others who said that the universal VLS probably won't be able to accommodate YJ-12.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Is there something in those pages that state YJ-12 is carried on the 052D inside the universal? The diameter of YJ-12 being 0.75 m may be referring to the missile body itself without the inlets and fins. Even if it is referring to the entire missile body (which really would no longer be a "diameter"), there would be only 0.1 m space around the missile for the canister wall and the exhaust venting; that's 0.05 m or 5 cm on each side. This seems to be a very tight squeeze and possible not enough space to vent any significant exhaust.
I don' t think in general fins are retractable for inlets maybe but the cell is square not round and so they are more room and to 85 cm YJ-12 surely fit, for length no problem cell do 9 m YJ-18 max about 8..
 
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Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
and were willing to compromise that YJ-12s could only be launched from ships using dedicated slant launchers.
My guess is that they never even intended for the YJ-12 to be surface-launched in the first place. The YJ-12 is first and foremost an air-launched cruise missile, sharing ancestry with the YJ-91 and before that the Kh-31, both exclusively air-launched missiles themselves. The YJ-12 could potentially be adapted to slant-launch, for example to replace the Sunburn on the Sov, but it's likely IMO that they never seriously considered this missile for placement in a VLS tube. I also personally can't think of any other PLAN warship besides the Sov that could make the space for this large of a missile on the main deck, so they may not even find it worthwhile to spend the R&D money to develop a surface-launch variant at all.

I don' t think in general fins are retractable for inlets maybe but the cell is square not round and so they are more room and to 85 cm YJ-12 surely fit, for length no problem cell do 9 m YJ-18 max about 8..
You have to remember it's not just the missile itself that has to fit into the tube, but also the hot launch canister and the space needed to vent the exhaust. Only cold launch missiles can utilize the full 850mm bore of the universal VLS tube. And the more I look at photos of the YJ-12 the less I am inclined to think this missile could fit into a VLS tube.
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Yes for the canister so more just for sizebut in all articles i have read 052D with universal VLS is armed with YJ-18 and normaly LACM CJ-10 or ? which do completely sense want use all types of missiles with a versatile VLS.

In more i don' t see Chinese retired launchers for YJ-62 on 052C and the new 052D don' t have AShM.
 

Iron Man

Major
Registered Member
Yes for the canister so more just for sizebut in all articles i have read 052D with universal VLS is armed with YJ-18 and normaly LACM CJ-10 or ? which do completely sense want use all types of missiles with a versatile VLS.

In more i don' t see Chinese retired launchers for YJ-62 on 052C and the new 052D don' t have AShM.
Both YJ-18 and CJ-10 are perfectly-sized to fit into a universal VLS tube, so the universal VLS onboard the 052D covers both antishipping and land attack without having to resort to the likes of the YJ-12. And like I was saying before, the Sov doesn't need universal VLS in order to have an antishipping capability. It already has port and starboard slant launchers for either the Sunburn or the YJ-12. Or it could also get creative and swap out those large Sunburn canisters for a quadruple or even sextuple bank of YJ-18 slant launchers on each side instead.
 

dingyibvs

Junior Member
What makes you think an HHQ-16-equipped Sov would be mostly wasted where an HHQ-9-equipped Sov would not be wasted, especially if we are talking about a "conflict" with NK? You're essentially saying that the Sov is "mostly wasted" right now, and not only that, was already "mostly wasted" from the time it finished construction, because these ships were designed with non-quadpacked MRSAMs from the very beginning, and even worse, non-VLS-launched SAMs.

No, there is no "waste" going on here. A Sov upgraded to HHQ-16-style VLS would be a considerable upgrade from the single-arm launchers it had before, especially if it can increase missile loadout from 48 to 64. It would utilize the already-existing domestically-produced infrastructure (ordinance, VLS, hardware/software, maintenance crewing/training) used by the 054A and soon by the 051B. It would also be able to use whatever ASW missile the PLAN is currently or soon to be using. Depending on its length, the YJ-18 may also be able to fit.

BTW, the HHQ-16 is IMO probably not amenable to quad-packing, even in the universal VLS. It is simply too fat and it is also hot-launched, which means the universal VLS would need to provide its own extra volume for exhaust venting. You need a slim missile like the ESSM or the DK-10 (with folding fins).

Think you misunderstood me, I meant the Sovs' abilities to fire the HQ-16 would be wasted on an opponent like NK, not that the ship would be a waste in a more general sense.

BTW I thought the HQ-16 was only about 250mm in diameter, should be easy to fit 4 in an 850mm canister, no?
 
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