I was going to say that was more like a rocket motor, and it is, not going in PAK-FA, but some type of follow on to PAK-FA.
Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)
- Thread starter A Bar Brother
- Start date
I was going to say that was more like a rocket motor, and it is, not going in PAK-FA, but some type of follow on to PAK-FA.
wait What?
So the Russians are building the successor to the F302?
Yes Sir!
I really do not want to see my post mistreated as "bashin" but when I see the issues, the T50-program has and then read such reports about sixth generation fighters and this one ....
... I can only wonder and smile !??
Deino
Equation
Lieutenant General
Don't you dare underestimate Russia.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Russia Kree, Benna! Ya wan ya duru! Mekta satak Terra!
Oh Wait this is not supposed to be A Goa'uld Language Forum...
but Really this is a stretch at best. a total fantasy at worst and a bit of Science fiction most likely.
I compared to the Fictional X302/F302 from Stargate SG1 It's supposed to be powered by hybrid engines fitting the description A pair of air breathing Jets that seem to switch to rocket powered modes at high altitude to even space operation
Now Are Engines like this possible? in theory yes. Reaction Engines S.A.B.R.E or Synergistic Air-Breathing Rocket Engine fits the description. It uses a Turbocompressor, heat exchanger/ Precooler system and Ram jet intake. It's a very complicated machine based around a Liquid hydrogen and Oxygen fuel supply. At low speeds and altitudes It burns Hydrogen and Air from the atmosphere at higher altitudes and speeds It would begin to transition. SABRE at about mach 5 would close the Engine intakes and begin injecting liquid oxygen into the fuel mix converting to a totally liquid fueled rocket engine. However SABRE is designed for use as a SSTO space plane meant to deliver payloads to orbit.
but putting that in a fighter is Scifi. I mean the Fuel needs, The mechanical complexity and Maneuverability at that speed? Even SG1 needed a Handwave in the form of an Alien Inertial dampener system to keep the crew from going splat. The Faster the speed the larger the rater of turn. Hypersonic means that it would have a rate of turn as large as a hemisphere. The Stresses of flight would be like reentry. And what you do with such? I mean Science fiction has Death gliders and Alien craft to take on. What do you do with a Platform like this? I mean strikes against locations fine but Interceptions of what?
Sorry but it's Science fiction. If this story is true then Putin is a System Lord and I am a Klingon.
Oh Wait this is not supposed to be A Goa'uld Language Forum...
Carter That you?
but Really this is a stretch at best. a total fantasy at worst and a bit of Science fiction most likely.
I compared to the Fictional X302/F302 from Stargate SG1 It's supposed to be powered by hybrid engines fitting the description A pair of air breathing Jets that seem to switch to rocket powered modes at high altitude to even space operation
Now Are Engines like this possible? in theory yes. Reaction Engines S.A.B.R.E or Synergistic Air-Breathing Rocket Engine fits the description. It uses a Turbocompressor, heat exchanger/ Precooler system and Ram jet intake. It's a very complicated machine based around a Liquid hydrogen and Oxygen fuel supply. At low speeds and altitudes It burns Hydrogen and Air from the atmosphere at higher altitudes and speeds It would begin to transition. SABRE at about mach 5 would close the Engine intakes and begin injecting liquid oxygen into the fuel mix converting to a totally liquid fueled rocket engine. However SABRE is designed for use as a SSTO space plane meant to deliver payloads to orbit.
but putting that in a fighter is Scifi. I mean the Fuel needs, The mechanical complexity and Maneuverability at that speed? Even SG1 needed a Handwave in the form of an Alien Inertial dampener system to keep the crew from going splat. The Faster the speed the larger the rater of turn. Hypersonic means that it would have a rate of turn as large as a hemisphere. The Stresses of flight would be like reentry. And what you do with such? I mean Science fiction has Death gliders and Alien craft to take on. What do you do with a Platform like this? I mean strikes against locations fine but Interceptions of what?
Sorry but it's Science fiction. If this story is true then Putin is a System Lord and I am a Klingon.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
So I guess the Russians are not building a Space bomber... and I would lay money they will be stepping back from the space fighter soon.
After all No more System lords to fight.
After all No more System lords to fight.
Russia Kree, Benna! Ya wan ya duru! Mekta satak Terra!
Oh Wait this is not supposed to be A Goa'uld Language Forum...
Carter That you?
but Really this is a stretch at best. a total fantasy at worst and a bit of Science fiction most likely.
I compared to the Fictional X302/F302 from Stargate SG1 It's supposed to be powered by hybrid engines fitting the description A pair of air breathing Jets that seem to switch to rocket powered modes at high altitude to even space operation
Now Are Engines like this possible? in theory yes. Reaction Engines S.A.B.R.E or Synergistic Air-Breathing Rocket Engine fits the description. It uses a Turbocompressor, heat exchanger/ Precooler system and Ram jet intake. It's a very complicated machine based around a Liquid hydrogen and Oxygen fuel supply. At low speeds and altitudes It burns Hydrogen and Air from the atmosphere at higher altitudes and speeds It would begin to transition. SABRE at about mach 5 would close the Engine intakes and begin injecting liquid oxygen into the fuel mix converting to a totally liquid fueled rocket engine. However SABRE is designed for use as a SSTO space plane meant to deliver payloads to orbit.
but putting that in a fighter is Scifi. I mean the Fuel needs, The mechanical complexity and Maneuverability at that speed? Even SG1 needed a Handwave in the form of an Alien Inertial dampener system to keep the crew from going splat. The Faster the speed the larger the rater of turn. Hypersonic means that it would have a rate of turn as large as a hemisphere. The Stresses of flight would be like reentry. And what you do with such? I mean Science fiction has Death gliders and Alien craft to take on. What do you do with a Platform like this? I mean strikes against locations fine but Interceptions of what?
Sorry but it's Science fiction. If this story is true then Putin is a System Lord and I am a Klingon.
True, but I believe you meant the "Higher the speed, the larger the turn "radius", the lower the "rate" of turn.
So as speed increases, the "radius" increases.
As speed increases "rate" decreases.
The real reason that "post stall" maneuvering works so well with OVT, in addition to "sympathetic aerodynamics".
Carry On Sir!
b787
Captain
Higher speed and altitude can defeat turning ability, but the question is the advantage how much advantage in speed and weapons.
A MiG-31 can fly at 2.35 for 20 minutes and under some circumstances can beat more nimble aircraft
Last edited:
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
"In Some Circumstances." A high to hyper sonic platform acting as an Interceptor has one major Achilles Heel In the modern Era.Higher speed and altitude can defeat turning ability, but the question is the advantage how much advantage in speed and weapons.
A MiG-31 can fly at 2.35 for 20 minutes and under some circumstances can beat more nimble aircraft
It can only Intercept What it can be vectored to at a long range. The FoxBat and Foxhound were designed to hunt B1 and B52 bombers Penetrating Soviet Airspace. These platforms could be seen at along range via Radar and Interceptors be sent on Mission to engage.
In the Modern Stealth fighter Era The Range of detection for a Platform drops significantly reducing the Ability of a Interceptor to be Scrambled in time for intercept.
Then When on Intercept for A platform relying on Speed and Altitude It comes down to a BVR ability. Mig 25 And Mig 31 Rely on large Powerful Radar And missiles.
In theory these should allow the Mig to engage but again If Stealth comes in BV ranges reduce Not to Visual ranges necessarily but to a point where the two birds are likely to be in each other's Ranges of detection and Attack.
So it comes down to a battle of who can keep who in the Kill box long enough to get a kill shot. The high speed Interceptor will have a window of engagement limited by it's high speed. The more nimble fighter if it can break the Enemies lock now has an opportunity As the High speed interceptor is in a overshoot. The High speed Interceptor will have to either make a run for it Which Could place It in The kill box of the Intruding fighter now on his tail or Try and bleed of Air speed and Hope to get back on the Enemy six, Starting a Turning battle Which the Interceptor is not built for.
b787
Captain
It depends in the weapons and situation, the MiG-31M which never was built was armed since the late 1990s with AA-12 Adder, that fighter would had beaten any western fighter at BVR easily, in fact vaunted F-15 had lots of trouble with the MiG-25s in 1991.
A fast interceptor needs to have a very big advantage in speed to surpass a lighter more agile fighter, but the main trouble has been fuel efficiency, the F-15 can not fly at Mach 2.5 for long in fact it barely flies at that speed, all contemporary fighters only flew at mach 0.9 as cruising speed and the air combats were at low speeds 0.7-0.9 Mach, the MiG-25s main disadvantage in 1991 was the mistake it was flown at low speeds, but when they flew at high speeds they never were touched by the F-15s and the F-15 fired many BVR missiles at them.
PAKFA is following the same philosophy, therefore it has variable geometry intake ramps allowing for speeds of up to Mach 3, but the PAKFA is said to be only limited to Mach 2.3-2.5, but theoretically the intake is good up to speeds of Mach 3.
the new Type 29/30 engine will allow supercruise at cheap and efficient fuel consumption rates.
MiG-31 can fly very very fast for 15-25 minutes much more than the F-15 can fly at Mach 2.5, it can fly at Mach 2.35 for at least 15 minutes leaving the eagle behind easily.
When you have supercruise the agility will be rendered useless, stealth will be detected and is detectable, but one thing is detect and other hit an enemy, most missiles of WVR are slow, mach 3 at the most and for few seconds, and even the AIM-120 only flies for seconds, or a couple of minutes and at the most at Mach 4 or 5, Foxbat was able to dodge AMRAAMs so PAKFA will do the same.
PAKFA is a true supersonic fighter, in my opinion the PAKFA is a supercruising fighter with Mach 1.9 capability and dashes of Mach 2.5.
F-15 and Su-27 are subsonic crusing fighters with very short bursts at Mach 2.3.
MiG-31 can cruise at Mach 2.3 but with afterburners but it carries lots of fuel, the MiG-31 weighs close to 47 tonnes,so it carries close to 23 tonnes in fuel! this allows it to out run the F-15, in BVR it surpasses the Eagle and even F-14, but in price and close combat you need MiG-29s/F-16s now you do not need vipers or Fulcrums but PAKFAs
Last edited: