Religious and/or ethnic issues on ships

schlieffen

New Member
Recently the issue of Halal food has became a hotly debated issue in China because of a bill proposed by certain Muslim representatives in the People’ Congress. The legislation aims to institution the halal food certification in China. Until now the halal certification (which existed for more than 30 years) carried no legal l binding force so everyone who don’t serve pork can claim to be Halal. This will change if the bill got passed.

Unusual for a Chinese legislative process it sparked a huge public debate and went well beyond internet. The public outcry is such that the authority decided to suspend the discussion, impose heavy censorship and put the legislation on hold for the time being. The main driving force behind the backlash is the growing islamophobia among Han middle class due to the intensifying terrorist attacks in Xinjiang and elsewhere. It is also driven by the fear that the intervention of the state will tip the delicate balance of power between Han and Hui/Uyghur Chinese in the western part of the country. For almost a thousand years Muslims have live alongside Han Chinese who are not only non-Muslim but also non-religious (Confucianism is not a religion), in other words among shirk. The state traditionally stayed aloft and let the Han and Muslim sort out their own disputes. Attempts by the state to intervene in a heavy handed manner always result in disasters.


The necessity for survival drove those Muslims to be more flexible and accommodating than usual. For example, in many parts of the country the word 清真(halal) has been corrupted for centuries and Muslims did not always protest - people simply got used to it. In case people don’t already know, 清真 is not a transcription of Halal, but a word borrowed from Taoism. There has always been debate whether it is truly equivalent to halal. So if we’re talking about 清真 in the Chinese context as opposed to Halal in a more universal context, no it is NOT necessarily a religious issue. Or should I say it has more than a religious dimension. Actually, facing tough opposition, many Muslim activist groups have started to emphasis the ethnical/culture aspect as oppose to religious aspect of the matter.
 

Brumby

Major
Recently the issue of Halal food has became a hotly debated issue in China because of a bill proposed by certain Muslim representatives in the People’ Congress. The legislation aims to institution the halal food certification in China. Until now the halal certification (which existed for more than 30 years) carried no legal l binding force so everyone who don’t serve pork can claim to be Halal. This will change if the bill got passed.

Unusual for a Chinese legislative process it sparked a huge public debate and went well beyond internet. The public outcry is such that the authority decided to suspend the discussion, impose heavy censorship and put the legislation on hold for the time being. The main driving force behind the backlash is the growing islamophobia among Han middle class due to the intensifying terrorist attacks in Xinjiang and elsewhere. It is also driven by the fear that the intervention of the state will tip the delicate balance of power between Han and Hui/Uyghur Chinese in the western part of the country. For almost a thousand years Muslims have live alongside Han Chinese who are not only non-Muslim but also non-religious (Confucianism is not a religion), in other words among shirk. The state traditionally stayed aloft and let the Han and Muslim sort out their own disputes. Attempts by the state to intervene in a heavy handed manner always result in disasters.


The necessity for survival drove those Muslims to be more flexible and accommodating than usual. For example, in many parts of the country the word 清真(halal) has been corrupted for centuries and Muslims did not always protest - people simply got used to it. In case people don’t already know, 清真 is not a transcription of Halal, but a word borrowed from Taoism. There has always been debate whether it is truly equivalent to halal. So if we’re talking about 清真 in the Chinese context as opposed to Halal in a more universal context, no it is NOT necessarily a religious issue. Or should I say it has more than a religious dimension. Actually, facing tough opposition, many Muslim activist groups have started to emphasis the ethnical/culture aspect as oppose to religious aspect of the matter.
The issue is not in the description but due to a lack of legislative force to ensure compliance. The Muslims are clear in what halal means to them but if they are a minority then there are limited options in getting what they want and hence it is forced acceptance. I lived in a Muslim country for 30 years and I know what "halal" means to them.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
What is regarded as taboo in one culture could mean differently in another. I'm a bit adventurist when it comes eating animals. Heck I would even like to travel to Japan or Norway just to get a chance to eat whale meat.:)

We raised beef cattle and hogs on our Tennessee farm, and later after selling our farm in Tennessee, we moved to Central Obamastan to be close to my maternal Grandmother, because after his retirement from the USAF, my Dad loved the black dirt here in Central Obamastan, some of the most productive soil on the planet.

We raised corn, soybeans, and alfalfa as grain and the Alfalfa as "hay" which we bailed and put up in the barn as winter forage for our cattle. Pork, Beef, Chicken, and Fish are staple proteins in our Western Diet, stemming from our Judeo/Christian Faith.

While pork is regarded as unclean by Jewish/Muslim believers, Christians go back to Peter's vision as he slept on the roof-top of Simon the tanner, just prior to the visit by the Roman Centurian Cornelious's entourage, where Peter was told not to call anything unclean, which the Lord had declared to be "clean".

I would likely defend my "Aussies" life as family, and the same for our two rotten cats, I have eaten rabbit and squirrel, as well a numerous game birds, and even goat barbeque in Tennessee. Quail, Chuckar, Cornish Game hens are wonderful, but I didn't care for ducks or geese. Turkey is wonderful if properly prepared and injected or basted in order to keep it moist.
 

Adders30

Just Hatched
Registered Member
as great grandson of hainanese hui (now i live in thailand) , i'm don't know about mainland government's policy about religion.... is mainland government alllowed its officer , both civilian and military , to practice religion now ? since i saw many picture of mainland government officers with hijab like this....can someone in mainland china explain ?
 

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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is an example of why it is so difficult to have a mature discussion on this forum. You initially mischaracterise the issue of "halal" to Muslims which I corrected and in response you are fabricating something that I never said in my reply to you. Can you simply be honest in the discussions and not make up things because it can be easily proven by the sequencing of and contents of the related conversation.


The issue that you initially raised is not whether there is anything religious on board the Liaoning. How China like any nation that has a minority Muslim population deals with it is both a policy and administration issue. That was not the contention. Your initial assertion that "halal" is not a religious thing to a Muslim is simply wrong - period.
Are you always so aggressive? Always resorting to personal attack? Is this your typical behavior responding to a person's openly admission of self fault? Civilize yourself first, then I am willing to ever talk to you, before that I will never reply your post, and don't touch my post either. You can always post your opinion in your own post.

And just remind you, it WAS YOU who quoted and replied my post. I have never intended to reply you, only did so thinking that you are sincerely interested in exchange opinions with me, but apparently l was wrong about you.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
2: In the parts you quoted in post #11, he said the muslim food issue (i.e.: halal) in the Chinese Navy is no more than having a vegetarian serviceman.The second part you quoted was him talking about a comment his Muslim friend had made. I'm not sure if his friend is a Chinese muslim or a muslim from elsewhere in the world who is not particularly adherent to their practices, but either way I do not see Taxiya as saying generally that all halal everywhere in the world is "not related to religion," rather that he is talking about the situation in China itself.
the person I referred was a Bangladeshian raised in the west, the conversation was over a dinner.

Thanks for your good posts.

Not knowing about you, I myself believe that "person of anger, bias and hatred will look for hostility from every corner even in the word of Hello". It doesn't worth to waste the breath. I still remember the time such person responded with the B word to my post which was neither impolite nor aiming to him. Just a trouble maker looking for a fight.
 

dingyibvs

Junior Member
China, and all countries really, should just have two types of meals in the military. One with everything in it, and one is vegan. The vegan option would satisfy all religious requirements from all religions.
 

solarz

Brigadier
China, and all countries really, should just have two types of meals in the military. One with everything in it, and one is vegan. The vegan option would satisfy all religious requirements from all religions.

I think accomodations should be determined on a case by case basis, with no consideration on whether it's religious, cultural, or physical (in the case of disabilities) in nature. The criteria for accomodation should simply be cost vs benefit. Does it make sense of have accomodation X, and does it give enough of a benefit to make it worth its cost?
 

Brumby

Major
Are you always so aggressive? Always resorting to personal attack? Is this your typical behavior responding to a person's openly admission of self fault? Civilize yourself first, then I am willing to ever talk to you, before that I will never reply your post, and don't touch my post either. You can always post your opinion in your own post.

I have said many times on this forum I don't have any issue in engaging in a roboust manner i.e. either in giving or receiving. The only caveat is that it is done in good faith. I don't resort to personal attacks because when I disagree I will be honest and tell you directly why I disagree. I don't believe in veil personal attacks as often practiced on this forum because that is such a low character attribute.

When you responded which I considered as mischaracterisation of what I said, it was based on my interpretation of your opening statement. Given that you have clarified your intended meaning of that statement it would be that I had mischaracterised what you said. For that, I apologise to you.
 
as great grandson of hainanese hui (now i live in thailand) , i'm don't know about mainland government's policy about religion.... is mainland government alllowed its officer , both civilian and military , to practice religion now ? since i saw many picture of mainland government officers with hijab like this....can someone in mainland china explain ?

Like I had posted before, there are plenty of other countries with religiously diverse populations, with a just as old or older continuous modern naval tradition as China, how do they handle religious dietary practices in their military particularly in the navy?

Thailand is one such country, do you know how religious dietary needs are handled in the Thai navy?

Of the major religions I am familiar with, Islam and Judaism has the most particular demands in terms of religious dietary practices. Many countries have significant populations adhering to one of these religions. How are these needs handled by India? The US? UK? France?
 
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