Star Wars & Sc-Fi Talk
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
solarz
Brigadier
I think that's the biggest difference between Wuxia and the Superhero genre. In Wuxia, the protagonist achieving his or her full potential marks the end of the story, while in Superhero stories, that is only the beginning.
The main purpose of Superhero stories, IMO, is to explore how superpowered beings would interact with a familiar, modern world. That interaction is the focus of superhero stories. The audience wants to see these superheroes to use their superpowers to solve complex real-world problems. This is very much like the speculative fiction subgenre of Sci-Fi.
On the other hand, Wuxia is much more classic fantasy. We can see many literary similiarities between Jinyong's novels and Lord of the Rings. There is always a young protagonist who starts out innocent and goes on a journey where he or she comes out changed, and that journey is the focus of the narrative.
The superhero genre is not as popular in China because the speculative fiction genre, and sci-fi in general, is not as widespread.
kwaigonegin
Colonel
Yes, not widespread primarily because I think the issue of popularity goes much much deeper. Superheroes genre/interests came about because of comic books and TV shows. Americans and her 'imports' have bombarded much of the civilized world with these superheroes for the last 50 years and more especially since the post war years.
There have been countless books, tv programs and movies focusing on these genre.
In China not so much. I believe that until very recently the average Chinese person/kid probably hasn't been exposed that much to these types of superhero canons even Chinese ones.
I don't think I am incorrect in saying that the average kid living from say 1960s to 1980s China probably hasn't read or see much Chinese superhero folklores either in print or media.. at least not compared to their 'Western' counterparts.
25 years from now (when kids today are adults) it may be quite different because I believe the level of exposure to Chinese kids TODAY is probably quite close to American kids.
vesicles
Colonel
The main difference is that most Chinese Wixia stories are just one novel. No sequel, no 50 years of continuous publication. So that's why they are limited to only origin stories. Just imagine Netflix's Daredevil being canceled after only season 1. It would be only an origin story. If you want to continue your story, then you have no choice but to come up with ways for your characters to use their powers.
There are continuous Wixia stories, where heroes use their super powers to solve problems. Chu Liuxiong would be one of them. He not only has super powers himself, but only has side kicks (a whole punch of hot girls with different abilities).
solarz
Brigadier
However, there's a difference between a story that's set up to end after one novel, and a story that's setup to be the first novel of a series. When stories that were complete on their own are "forced" to have a sequel due to commercial reasons, those sequels are often mediocre. The Matrix is a prime example of this.
In any case, in order for a superhero story (or any story for that matter) to resonnate with its audience, it must deal with problems that its audience can identify with.
American superhero stories deal with typically American problems and fears. The Avengers deal with fears of terrorism and how American society changes due to that fear. X-Men deals with the fears of a majority over a minority that individually possess greater capabilities than the majority.
I would say these are not themes that a Chinese reader would typically identify with.
This is why Marvel or DC can't simply create Asian or Chinese superheroes, but with their usual story formula, and expect it to succeed in China.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Yes, that's it. George Lucas already did it with Jedi. The Force is chi and they do super jumps and there are various abilities. They just have to modernize it. Fighting while jumping from rooftop to rooftop now becomes from skyscraper to skyscraper.
Because they also need to account for western readers/viewers. Taking an established superhero and putting an ethnic twist on it is considered to be "safe". Just look at what Marvel is doing to Captain America and Miss Marvel in the comics.
solarz
Brigadier
But then, that would be precisely why it would fail in China. Just slapping an ethnic face on an American story is not going to make Chinese readers identify with the story.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
They have tried revamping supes before and it failed. This will to. Superman originally was a independent concept but over the history of supes he has evolved into another symbol of American Ideals and Americana itself. You can't really separate the red and blue of Superman from that of the Red white and Blue its what he is an ideal a modern messianic figure. The S is said to mean hope that's not by mistake Superman is a comic retelling of the Optimistic Immigrant story in the US. The poor boy who Lost everything of his home and yet builds a life well making a difference to the overall health and wellbeing of his adopted culture.
Its not about being a superpower its about fitting in and being accepted. When they tried to rebrand superman before they had some cultural point of reference for characters like John Henry Irons aka Steel who took the ideals of Superman and sought to continue his mission. (this was lacking in the Shaq adaptation)
Simply redrawing the super suit and placing it on a new individual from a cultural that has a majorly differing world view of its ideals is doomed.
Superman is a figure meant to inspire you to the Ideals he holds to. Those are of his adopted culture and family he is after all a classic piece of American Art and the American dream raised on a farm in Kansas real American Apple pie.
The problems of the Actual US may differ from him and his ideals but he is meant to be a moral compass and try to drag us back to the idealism of the American Dream, a nation that accepts and rewards hard work and working for the betterment of his brother man and from time to time supes has gone against the state and forced a violent requesting of what is right and wrong.
Recasting Sups into another cultural base that favors other ideals like loyalty to the party was trialed in Superman Red son. Where the drives of the party when they ran contrary to those of the Man of steel resulted in violent oppression by the superior power... In other words President Superman.
The other take that happened in comics was the second volume of the Dark knight returns where superman becomes a weapon of the state. His ideals results in him being used by the state to settle it's disputes and forcing the hands of those who don't have a superman of there own to take drastic measures. Basically superman is a nuclear weapon with out a counter and his use by the US government in a direct conflict in both Red Son and Dark Knight Returns places any and all adversaries in a position of inferiority yet this doesn't mean subjugation but rather desperate attempts at resistance.
IE military build up, deployment of super weapons at the cost of lives all for the singular hope of even scratching his super hide.
In my opinion recasting along this is a gimmick and a poorly thought up one showing desperation by DC to try and market to the PRC. It will bomb as traditional fans and readers walk away and the writers in their bid to pander to the censors and party and
A niche portion of the global marketplace readership will sacrifice plot and story for acceptance into the highly regulated market of the PRC.
I think this will bomb and bomb bad.
Its not about being a superpower its about fitting in and being accepted. When they tried to rebrand superman before they had some cultural point of reference for characters like John Henry Irons aka Steel who took the ideals of Superman and sought to continue his mission. (this was lacking in the Shaq adaptation)
Simply redrawing the super suit and placing it on a new individual from a cultural that has a majorly differing world view of its ideals is doomed.
Superman is a figure meant to inspire you to the Ideals he holds to. Those are of his adopted culture and family he is after all a classic piece of American Art and the American dream raised on a farm in Kansas real American Apple pie.
The problems of the Actual US may differ from him and his ideals but he is meant to be a moral compass and try to drag us back to the idealism of the American Dream, a nation that accepts and rewards hard work and working for the betterment of his brother man and from time to time supes has gone against the state and forced a violent requesting of what is right and wrong.
Recasting Sups into another cultural base that favors other ideals like loyalty to the party was trialed in Superman Red son. Where the drives of the party when they ran contrary to those of the Man of steel resulted in violent oppression by the superior power... In other words President Superman.
The other take that happened in comics was the second volume of the Dark knight returns where superman becomes a weapon of the state. His ideals results in him being used by the state to settle it's disputes and forcing the hands of those who don't have a superman of there own to take drastic measures. Basically superman is a nuclear weapon with out a counter and his use by the US government in a direct conflict in both Red Son and Dark Knight Returns places any and all adversaries in a position of inferiority yet this doesn't mean subjugation but rather desperate attempts at resistance.
IE military build up, deployment of super weapons at the cost of lives all for the singular hope of even scratching his super hide.
In my opinion recasting along this is a gimmick and a poorly thought up one showing desperation by DC to try and market to the PRC. It will bomb as traditional fans and readers walk away and the writers in their bid to pander to the censors and party and
A niche portion of the global marketplace readership will sacrifice plot and story for acceptance into the highly regulated market of the PRC.
I think this will bomb and bomb bad.
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solarz
Brigadier
Completely agreed, and this is why if DC really wanted to expand its Chinese market, they should have taken the time to understand the Chinese literary culture and build upon that with an original character, rather than creating yet another spinoff.