Weapons Of China: Similar To Germany and Russia?

Hello!
I have seen many and read many books and stuff on the Chinese military during the older times. mainly WWII
From what i can see the Chinese weapons at that time seem more weapons from Germany and Russia, those bolt-action rifles (possible KAR98's or the Mosin-Nagant) the pistols as well those (Luger's, Mauser's, Walther P38's, and in some instances the American Colt .45/more seen by use with Shanghai gansters). Also there have been cases seeing of what looked like a M1 Thompson with the 100 drum rounds or the Russian PPsh.
Were those weapons exported from Germany, Russia, or USA? Or were they jus smuggled from foreign sources (that definetly applies to the Gangsters). Were there actually some kind of connections between those countries? China had cut its relations with Germany at the start of WWI, and there was a Walther P38 in 1936?

What do you people think?

I'm not sure about China cutting relations with Germany. Entire corps of the KMT were trained and equiped by the Germans. Namely, 88th Division and 2-3 others. They were considered the elite fighting of the Nationalists.

Now, the Soviets also helped out quite a bit. They actually supported the Nationalists at first, then switched because of a multitude of reasons. Military assistance against the Japanese took the form of T-34s, AK's, SKS. Mostly small arms. Also, Russia forward deployed an aerial group to China in the late 30's/early 40's. Something called Operation Z-something.

eecsmaster said:

I'm not sure about China cutting relations with Germany. Entire corps of the KMT were trained and equiped by the Germans. Namely, 88th Division and 2-3 others. They were considered the elite fighting of the Nationalists.

Now, the Soviets also helped out quite a bit. They actually supported the Nationalists at first, then switched because of a multitude of reasons. Military assistance against the Japanese took the form of T-34s, AK's, SKS. Mostly small arms. Also, Russia forward deployed an aerial group to China in the late 30's/early 40's. Something called Operation Z-something.

Click to expand...

It was called operation Zet.

Also i think you're a little confused about those weapons, they weren't developped until at least after 1941.

yes you're right.

My mistake.

Most Chinese weapons at the time were of German or Russian Manufacture, the later much moreso after WW2.

One of the most famous of the forgien weapons used were the Chinese Mauser 'Broomhandle' C96 pistol-carbines. These guns could carry 10-15 rounds, and were typicaly chambered 7.63MM Mauser. However, many Chinese C96 carbines were made or re-chambered to fire .45 caliber ammunition. Most of these weapons were manufactured by Chinese Nationalists.

Other weapons include the Chinese Type 54, which was a straight copy of a PPSh41 and the Type 56 AK's. Another intresting development was the Norinco 305, a carbon copy of the M14 rifle made by the U.S. There is also the Type 79 rifle, a liscenced copy of the SVD Dragunov. In fact, copies or modifications of forgien weapons were an integral part of the PLA untill the 1990's, with the Type 95 rifle being the first indigenous assault rifle made by the People's Republic that is now in mainstray use.

The PLA still uses plenty of copies though. The Norinco 98 is a carbon copy of the Remington 870 used by U.S Marines (The 870, not the 98). The Magazine tube is enlarged to hold 5 rounds instead of 4. I am not sure if this is the shotgun the PLA uses, but from what I have heard this seems to be the case.

Broomstick Mausers tend to be iconized in many Chinese gangster movies set around the 1930s Shanghai.

Gangsters tend to like to hold it sideways as well the bullet ejection is upwards of the gun so they use that momentum and use as a bit of a 'room clearer' horizontally, so cool

Yes KMT collaborated greatly with Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1937. China needed to modernise its defence industry and equipment, and Germany was interested in trading China's raw materials in exchange for military modernisation. Hitler also wanted to help KMT because they're anti communist, he wants KMT to help him fight USSR but ironically USSR and KMT signed non-aggression pacts and USSR went further to help KMT for some time when the war began, so Hitler sided with Japan instead since they're after the USSR too. Japan also proved to be more powerful of an ally for Hitler.

The military help from Germany was not as much as planned since the war started before full modernisation is complete. Help was mainly on infantry. The elite KMT soldiers received training from Germans and also got German equipment like Gewehr 88, Gewehr 98, and Karabiner 98k rifles, gas masks, etc. They also got the German M35 helmet, which made them look like Nazi soldiers! China also made copies of the German MG-34. Other equipment from Germany include 37mm PaK 35/36 AT guns, 150mm L/32 sFH 18 howitzers, and 150mm L/30 sFH 18 howitzers.

In one of the first major battle during the Second Sino-Japanese war, the battle of Shanghai, 1/3 of these crack troops were KIA. Chiang Kai Shek used his best troops against Japan to resist against them as much as possible during their initial invasion to show Westerners that China is not hopeless against Japan (which is what they initially thought), this is to convince Westerners to offer help. Because of the lack of air and armour support, the Chinese infantry stood no chance and eventually had to retreat but later they did get the help they wanted from the West.

A word about the Chinese air force at the time. They were initially very successful, wiping out two Japanese squadrons at the beginning of the Battle of Shanghai. On the second day of the battle (Aug 14, 1937), Gao Zhihang's 4th flying group downed 6 Japanese aircraft with no losses (this day was later remembered as Air Force day under KMT) However, China's aircraft came from foreign aid or are purchased from foreign countries instead of domestically produced, so their replacement was much slower than the Japanese air force. Eventually they lost the air superiority. China's aircraft is composed of a big soup of mixed foreign aircraft, the most probably came from the US. The backbone of the airforce is formed by the US Curtiss Hawk I, II, and IIIs. Early in the war they also got I-15s, I-16s, etc from USSR. Some Japanese aircraft were also captured during the war for use.

QBZ957 said:

Gangsters tend to like to hold it sideways as well the bullet ejection is upwards of the gun so they use that momentum and use as a bit of a 'room clearer' horizontally, so cool

Click to expand...

I am sorry but that is no way to shoot a firearm, especially a .45 in any model. And there is about 0.009% of someone actually hitting any target in that "room clearing" fashion... despite what the movies might lead you to believe. Sorry to go off topic.

Still, it looks friggin' bad-ass. Don't you think?