Chinese Engine Development

Hyperwarp

Captain
If authenticity of the following article is to be endorsed, then it seems that a prototype WS-15 engine was delivered in 2011.

This correlates with rumors (from Henri) that a WS-15 is wrapping up ground tests.

...

That means we should hopefully see a fully assembled WS-15 prototype in flight within the next few years. That would be great news. Even if the thrust is around 152-155 kN with good TWR it would be great a achievement.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
that's what I am talking about.
first WS15 equipped J20 protyotype in 2020 is ridiculous.

Why is ridiculous if they finish ground testing in 2015. The next step would be in the air testing with IL 76 rig.It probably took 2 or 3 years. Then 1 or 2 more years testing with real J 20 before they certified the design. So yea that is possible of course barring any unforeseen hiccup. Of course having production line ready and sorting out quality problem is different thing.

But it should be faster than WS 10 since the industrial base is now much more sophisticated. And they have trained large number of skilled technician since then. Money is no more problem I think it is within the ball park I use very conservative estimate
 
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Engineer

Major
Too much credit is given to Russian engines. All but one J-10 crashes were due to engine problem. A brand new un-painted J-10B crashed last year, because the engine ceased up for no reason, so even new engine is faulty. The same old problem that plagued the Al-31FN all these years still have not been solved. India got less severe cases of the same problem. Russian themselves had their 117 engines (derived from Al-31) spontaneously combusted outright. These are on-going proofs of reliability issues in Al-31 and Al-31 derived engines.

The Soviet never intended their engines to be used like today. The Soviet's intent was to have the aircraft fly to the front line, do their stuff, and never to return again. Under that kind of design philosophy, it is only natural that their engines are crap. Certainly, the Russians have done improvements to bring the reliability up, but no amount of modifications can turn a Civic into a Formula-1.

People love to dig up that story about WS-10 causing a bunch of J-11B to be grounded as proof that WS-10 is unreliable. However, that happened more than half a decade ago. Raising an issue that has ceased to be relevant for so long actually shows WS-10 is indeed reliable. It is year 2016. 400 WS-10 engines are in service already and more are being made. It is time for those people to move on!
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
People love to dig up that story about WS-10 causing a bunch of J-11B to be grounded as proof that WS-10 is unreliable. However, that happened more than half a decade ago. Raising an issue that has ceased to be relevant for so long actually shows WS-10 is indeed reliable. It is year 2016. 400 WS-10 engines are in service already and more are being made. It is time for those people to move on!

You know as well as I do those type of people can't move on, otherwise they have nothing else to bash Chinese engine about. They need something to prove that Chinese Communism can never be better than them at anything.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I think there is a bit of a case of confirmation bias against reliable engines.

We only ever hear stories, or indeed, pay attention when something goes wrong. With engines, especially on single engined figures, that usually means something going catastrophically wrong.

However, there is nothing really to report if an engine is working perfectly, even for years on end.

I take it was a plus that it has been years since we heard any major stories about the WS10A, because as far as engines are concerned, no news is good news.

With over 400 engines operational on hundreds of fighters for years already, if there was still serious issues with the WS10A, there would have been persistent rumours, and the PLAAF would not be integrating it on the single engined J10B/Cs.

People often make the unfounded assumption that China is aiming for the WS10A to match AL31N performance and reliability, when I think China's aims are far more ambitious, and they are in fact using western engines as a benchmark to measure themselves against.

In terms of reliability and durability at least, I would expect the WS10A to be way ahead of the AL31 in terms of design. There were some early hiccups with implementation, but with those resolved, the WS10A should prove to be a superior engine in those regards.

The AL31 may still hold a slender raw performance edge, but that comes because of the design compromises made to maximise performance at the expense of lifespan and reliability.

Russia is in effect overclocking their engines to get better performance, while China is following the western approach to design fundamentally better engines.

Such an approach is much harder and takes longer, but once accomplished, should yield far superior fruits.
 
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