Chinese military exports to other countries
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Looks like they are interested in a heavy fighter. There was unsubstantiated rumor that they were interested in the J-16, which ticked Russia off.
Makes a lot of sense, given Su-30s are a much better replacement for their ageing F-14s than J-10s could ever be. The aircraft are in completely different weight/range categories.
In terms of force structure, it is sensible for the Iranians to go and first seek and procure a number of higher end and larger fighter aircraft first before pursuing medium weight fighter aircraft in larger numbers.
I can't imagine China would have sold J-16, or any other domestically built flanker. I think China would've agreed to not export any of its domestic flankers on the international market.
steven_master
New Member
Iran's revolutionary guard could still get j 10s in the future
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Anyone have any sort of transcript of the pertinent part of the interview where the J10 was mentioned?
I was not aware that China was actively marketing the J10 to anyone, and is instead offering the JF17 as its main export offering.
If the J10 was to be made available, it would pretty much be competing directly with the JF17, and will be a more attractive offering to most prospective customers.
It is a little unusual for procurement decisions to go like this, with a potential bidder ruled out at such an early stage. You would think the Iranians would at least use the J10 as leverage to get better terms from the Russians first even if they have no intention of actually going for it. Unless, of course all of that has already happened behind closed doors already. Although given the timeframe from when sanctions were lifted till now, that seems awfully quick.
As others have already pointed out, it makes most sense for Iran to go for a heavy fighter at this stage.
They have a lot of airspace to cover, so a small number of heavy fighters would provide them the best coverage for money spent.
However, given how this deal is going down, I am more inclined to believe that the Su30 deal was pretty much pre-determined, as the price for Russian assistance in getting the nuclear deal agreed, and sanctions lifted.
In which case, the J10 would never have had a shot at winning the contract irrespective of the actual merits of the performance and terms of any offer.
That is why I am very curious to know the exact working regarding the J10 comment.
Firstly, China hasn't really been actively offering the J10 for export as far as I am aware.
Secondly, this was never really a real competitive bid, so even if the Chinese were pushing J10s, it seems like a looser bid not worth investing and time and resources in chasing to start with.
Lastly, China has little interest in picking sides in the whole Sunni vs Shia mess, not to mention its good relations with Israel. So going for such a high-profile arms deal that is likely to royally peeve off the whole Saudi gang, Israel, and probably Pakistan as well just seems like bad maths.
Russia, OTOH, is already effectively engaged in the struggle agains the Saudi-alliance in Syria, and is also already royally peeved at the Saudi led coalition for knocking oil prices into the basement, so arming Iran seems right up their alley.
I was not aware that China was actively marketing the J10 to anyone, and is instead offering the JF17 as its main export offering.
If the J10 was to be made available, it would pretty much be competing directly with the JF17, and will be a more attractive offering to most prospective customers.
It is a little unusual for procurement decisions to go like this, with a potential bidder ruled out at such an early stage. You would think the Iranians would at least use the J10 as leverage to get better terms from the Russians first even if they have no intention of actually going for it. Unless, of course all of that has already happened behind closed doors already. Although given the timeframe from when sanctions were lifted till now, that seems awfully quick.
As others have already pointed out, it makes most sense for Iran to go for a heavy fighter at this stage.
They have a lot of airspace to cover, so a small number of heavy fighters would provide them the best coverage for money spent.
However, given how this deal is going down, I am more inclined to believe that the Su30 deal was pretty much pre-determined, as the price for Russian assistance in getting the nuclear deal agreed, and sanctions lifted.
In which case, the J10 would never have had a shot at winning the contract irrespective of the actual merits of the performance and terms of any offer.
That is why I am very curious to know the exact working regarding the J10 comment.
Firstly, China hasn't really been actively offering the J10 for export as far as I am aware.
Secondly, this was never really a real competitive bid, so even if the Chinese were pushing J10s, it seems like a looser bid not worth investing and time and resources in chasing to start with.
Lastly, China has little interest in picking sides in the whole Sunni vs Shia mess, not to mention its good relations with Israel. So going for such a high-profile arms deal that is likely to royally peeve off the whole Saudi gang, Israel, and probably Pakistan as well just seems like bad maths.
Russia, OTOH, is already effectively engaged in the struggle agains the Saudi-alliance in Syria, and is also already royally peeved at the Saudi led coalition for knocking oil prices into the basement, so arming Iran seems right up their alley.
Hyperwarp
Captain
Blackstone
Brigadier
Competition is what makes the marketplace work for everyone.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
Although it started as a Secret Police agency, after the Iran Iraq war the IRGC expanded into a full second military service. Its like the SS of Nazi Germany operating as Ceremonial guards, body guards of the leadership class, international security, enforcement of the body politic, operating prisons, intelligence gathering and counter intelligence, Asymmetric warfare, conventional infantry units, naval operations, air defense and air operations including a number of there own fighters , management of Iranian defense recourses and finally maintence and control of their WMD programs including Ballistic missiles, Chemical, Biological and Radiological. One stop shopping for all your favorite trouble making needs.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Good summary, although the comparison to the SS is probably unwise.
One could just as accurately compare the IRGC to the US Marine Corps as a niche elite force that has grown to become effectively a military in its own right, without the loaded negativity of the SS comparison.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
The SS is the closest comparison. Loaded though it may be.
The USMC began much like any other late 18th early 19th century Marine corps as naval sharp shooters and raiders. But by the 20th century expanded into a number of roles including amphibious assault and close air support.
However the Marines remain Naval assets at heart, always returning to the sea. There amphibious assault roles were a natural extension from naval raiding, and even today a significant amount of the mission logistics and support of the USMC is rooted in the Navy. The medical, intelligence and Religious support system is Navy not Marines. It was a natural expansion to meet the modern world where ship to ship combat was at beyond rifle range.
I thought about trying a comparison to the PLA and how a infantry arm expanded into multiple services and subservices but it was rooted to the same mission and so that expansion was a natural progression. They were given the mission by the leadership, "Fight for the Party, Defend the PRC" so when the PLA hit the sea they created the PLAN, when they hit the Air PLAAF and so on and so forth. But they were still obeying the mission mandate.
By contrast the IRGC and SS both began as internal agencies the IRGC the enforcement of Islamic ideals at home, the SS the top leadership's personal security. But from those missions they expanded well beyond and became external forces.
It would be like the NYPD launching a full space program. How does the Original mandate IE Protect and serve NYC suddenly include Mars?
The USMC began much like any other late 18th early 19th century Marine corps as naval sharp shooters and raiders. But by the 20th century expanded into a number of roles including amphibious assault and close air support.
However the Marines remain Naval assets at heart, always returning to the sea. There amphibious assault roles were a natural extension from naval raiding, and even today a significant amount of the mission logistics and support of the USMC is rooted in the Navy. The medical, intelligence and Religious support system is Navy not Marines. It was a natural expansion to meet the modern world where ship to ship combat was at beyond rifle range.
I thought about trying a comparison to the PLA and how a infantry arm expanded into multiple services and subservices but it was rooted to the same mission and so that expansion was a natural progression. They were given the mission by the leadership, "Fight for the Party, Defend the PRC" so when the PLA hit the sea they created the PLAN, when they hit the Air PLAAF and so on and so forth. But they were still obeying the mission mandate.
By contrast the IRGC and SS both began as internal agencies the IRGC the enforcement of Islamic ideals at home, the SS the top leadership's personal security. But from those missions they expanded well beyond and became external forces.
It would be like the NYPD launching a full space program. How does the Original mandate IE Protect and serve NYC suddenly include Mars?
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