Brother of Ling Jihua Reveals China's nuclear launch code and top secrets to US

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Blitz, a lesson of the cold war is that documents need not go missing. Photos of sensitive papers are alot easier to stash and transport. Photos would also mean that it would be harder to ascertain what was lost. Classic weapon of the cold war was the minox micro camera, about the size of a cigarette lighter. Today any Camera Phone could hold millions of pages of information that never need leave the office.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
If this guy held on to this information as an insurance policy, then it didn't work. Just go by China's reputation. Like this scheme was going to protect this guy? Which doesn't remove the possibility it was false information that was passed just to play both sides. Two years vetting the information could easily also mean they found out it was worthless and why this is being released to the public. Right now he's just a propaganda puppet for Americans feeling like they got a win. It really comes down to why would the US government allow this information to go public when China can easily make this information worthless when found out?
 

Blitzo

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Blitz, a lesson of the cold war is that documents need not go missing. Photos of sensitive papers are alot easier to stash and transport. Photos would also mean that it would be harder to ascertain what was lost. Classic weapon of the cold war was the minox micro camera, about the size of a cigarette lighter. Today any Camera Phone could hold millions of pages of information that never need leave the office.

Duh. I wasn't suggesting that the govt would have responded by looking at an office and scouring for an empty space of dust in the bookshelf or file drawer.

The first step would depend on when they first suspected Mr Li to first have had various documents. Then they would form a task group to look at what kind of documents Li Jinghua would have had immediate access to and work from there through standard investigative techniques in both physical spaces and cyber space.
 

Blitzo

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Specifically, I'm interested in how Chenming and Qianshao (two previously no name magazines) would have access to information such as the quoted part below.
Two possibilities is that either the government specifically allowed the information to be leaked (which wouldn't make too much sense), or that both magazines had insiders which leaked them the information (in which case it is a little strange that these two magazines are not bigger household names with a previous record for publishing these kinds of scandalous information).

This isn't even like the Snowden case with Glenn Greenwald when solid, actual documents with living proof was available to back up claims and articles -- in this case no one has bothered vetting the two magazines and their original writers to begin with.


The Chenming report said that as a result of the compromises, Chinese Politburo offices came under cyber attack for several months. Additionally, telephone and computer equipment was replaced over security concerns.

Ling Wancheng was said to have had unrestricted access to Ling Jihua’s office and is therefore suspected of making off with the classified documents, the magazine said.

According to Qianshao, the second magazine, Meng said at the meeting that Ling, as a gatekeeper of the Communist Party’s most important secrets, “stole a great many top-secret documents from the archives concerning the Party and the state, kept [them] in his personal possession, [and] ultimately got them to America.”

The documents were taken during a month-long transition after Ling Jihua was replaced in July 2012. The office he headed was in charge of protecting government and military secrets.

During an investigation of Ling’s residence, Chinese authorities discovered that 2,700 secret documents had been photocopied. Most of the photocopies had been produced after September 2012, when Ling Jihua was transferred to another government ministry.

The secrets included security passcodes and communications codes used at Zhongnanhai, blueprints, and command and control information used by Communist leaders and the State Council, the cabinet, and the Central Military Commission.

Launch procedures for firing nuclear missiles used by Party leaders and People’s Liberation Army leaders also were leaked.
 

Janiz

Senior Member
If this guy held on to this information as an insurance policy, then it didn't work.
We don't know what kind of documents he had against top tier politicians in PRC and surely it won't be made public in PRC. The PRC Politburo has all the rule over Chinese judicial system and they made things happen very fast for him without making it public in any way when they found out and arrested him. He's got nothing to defend against it. All the documents won't be taken under investigation. He had it prepared for political game within the Party and he must have strong ones as he was still remaining at the top after Xi's group took over. There are people at the top who want to keep it quiet. And it will be quiet in China. What about other part of documents about PRC national security? Those wern't made for internal fights. He kept that as the last way to defend himself and probably when PRC's tops knew that his brother made a contact with Americans they knew it was a lost game and gave them up doing as much damage control as they could (arresting him).
Like this scheme was going to protect this guy? Which doesn't remove the possibility it was false information that was passed just to play both sides.
Sure, and they're now going to execute one of the PRC's top politician because it was 'false information'... Get real.
Two years vetting the information could easily also mean they found out it was worthless and why this is being released to the public. Right now he's just a propaganda puppet for Americans feeling like they got a win.
US won it big time. Stop downplaying it. Where did you get those 2 years? And they kept this guy for some kind of joke until US relesed the informations about his brother? You can talk like that everyday to yourself and live in delusion that's worthless but it's a major success for US intelligence getting their hands over real, top secret informations. They surely took some of that for expertise testings before the deal with his brother was made and it turned as worth it's price.
This isn't even like the Snowden case with Glenn Greenwald when solid, actual documents with living proof was available to back up claims and articles -- in this case no one has bothered vetting the two magazines and their original writers to begin with.
With all respect, but Snowden is zero compared to Ling Jihua.
 

Blitzo

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With all respect, but Snowden is zero compared to Ling Jihua.

The potential scale of the usefulness of the information is not relevant here, we are talking about the hard evidence for specific claims made by the journalists.

The claims made by Chengming and Qianshao in regards to the documents that Ling Jiahua (or rather, his brother) have had are not yet verifiable, compared to the Snowden case where we had proof in the form of actual documents and a flesh and blood individual willing to speak.

The problem is that the magazines are claiming details from a supposed secret govt meeting... and as far as I know we don't have any verfiable evidence from them since then.
Then again, I'm not familiar with either of the two magazines nor have I read their original articles so it may be possible that they presented solid and convincing evidence to support their claims... but if so I have not yet read any of it.
 

Janiz

Senior Member
The claims made by Chengming and Qianshao in regards to the documents that Ling Jiahua (or rather, his brother) have had are not yet verifiable, compared to the Snowden case where we had proof in the form of actual documents and a flesh and blood individual willing to speak.
Well, there's already a big problem with US intelligence classified docments from WWII now as it's hard to locate, scattered around the whole country, already destroyed by poor storage and rotting so I wouldn't bet any money that informations from Ling Wangcheng will ever surface.
 

Blitzo

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Well, there's already a big problem with US intelligence classified docments from WWII now as it's hard to locate, scattered around the whole country, already destroyed by poor storage and rotting so I wouldn't bet any money that informations from Ling Wangcheng will ever surface.

Yes, and that is close to the point I'm making -- i.e.: we know Mr Li probably does have various sensitive and potentially damaging documents in his possession, but at present there is no convincing evidence from the original sources (Chenming and Qianshao) to back up their claims in regards to the details of the documents (whether it's nuclear launch procedures or ZNH security).

That isn't to say we should dismiss their claims wholesale, but it should mean we need to look more closely as to whether their claims make sense and to dig a little deeper, for the sake of logic and common sense if nothing else.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
We don't know what kind of documents he had against top tier politicians in PRC and surely it won't be made public in PRC. The PRC Politburo has all the rule over Chinese judicial system and they made things happen very fast for him without making it public in any way when they found out and arrested him. He's got nothing to defend against it. All the documents won't be taken under investigation. He had it prepared for political game within the Party and he must have strong ones as he was still remaining at the top after Xi's group took over. There are people at the top who want to keep it quiet. And it will be quiet in China. What about other part of documents about PRC national security? Those wern't made for internal fights. He kept that as the last way to defend himself and probably when PRC's tops knew that his brother made a contact with Americans they knew it was a lost game and gave them up doing as much damage control as they could (arresting him).Sure, and they're now going to execute one of the PRC's top politician because it was 'false information'... Get real.US won it big time. Stop downplaying it. Where did you get those 2 years? And they kept this guy for some kind of joke until US relesed the informations about his brother? You can talk like that everyday to yourself and live in delusion that's worthless but it's a major success for US intelligence getting their hands over real, top secret informations. They surely took some of that for expertise testings before the deal with his brother was made and it turned as worth it's price.With all respect, but Snowden is zero compared to Ling Jihua.


You seem to be getting testy for one so happy. I know that's how the thought police think. I love it when the people who hide behind freedom are the first to be upset that others aren't seeing something the same way as you do. Basic fact... if any information was the slightest important, why would the US government let this information out informing the Chinese that they knew? It was either worthless or can easily be changed to be worthless. That's called not a big coup for the US. I read Terran's post (#28) that said two years. That where I got it. And again why would they make this public if any of it turned out to be valuable? Wouldn't they want China not to change the nuclear codes so they can be exploited during war? Internal fights? How do you exploit that? Like the Chinese public cares about internal fights? Just like the NSA mining for sexual affairs of top officials to expose them to the Chinese public. You think the Chinese public will start a revolution over that? Plenty of charges of officials accumulating wealth for themselves and their families. Still no revolution. You'd like to believe the Chinese government hides that information from the public. Guess what? Chinese people already know.

All it says it's pretty hypocritical to charge China engages in economic espionage when some of that information was economic secrets. Sorry to inform you but I saw that article before it was posted in here and didn't think it was a big deal because again why would the US government make that public when China can close the backdoors? Yeah you can take victory that Beijing had to spend some overtime hours closing the backdoors but that's about it.

Great success for the US or bad intelligence tactics? I wouldn't put it pass someone to release this information just to claim victory over not letting the Chinese know you know. Nuclear codes... that's a big deal but you let the Chinese know so now the codes have been changed. You won't be getting that chance again because someone valued bragging about it for immediate satisfaction over national security. But then again it means nothing if it was found out to be false information from the beginning. So you can feign victory all you want and no one in the US government would care that secret information was released to the public because it didn't matter in the first place.
 
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