J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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janjak desalin

Junior Member
[...]What the US Defense Secretary foolishly said in 2010 would not even be initially introduced until 2020, for initial operational capability perhaps by the 2026-2027 time period is being eclipsed...totally..

One has to expect initial production has started, and that handing aircraft over to the PLAAF to work them up to IOC will begin...perhaps in 2016, for an IOC date now as early as late 2017! They are going to come in nine or ten years earlier than forecast by the US SECDEF.

Embarassing...but not wholly unexpected for this particular US administration IMHO.[...]
And, of course, Robert Michael Gates was held over from the previous, disastrous, administration. That was President Obama's second biggest mistake. His first was giving Hillary Clinton the Secretary of Defense job! However, at least the preceding administration she had ties to wasn't a wholesale policy disaster like the one that followed it.

Oh, but that's right, no on else can launch political asides here!


LOL!!!
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
war is not sport, it is not mean to be fair, it means war, to win the edge by unfair means, to be fair means to lose the war, wars are win by unfairness, by advantages. anyway let us get back on topic
"War is not a sport" is exactly why you shouldn't believe outlandish kill ratios with no solid analysis backing the claims or base the effectiveness of a plane based on 1 vs 1 comparisons.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
is not underestimate, but they seem to have chosen to manufacture more prototypes without a proper engine, by building the first aircraft without a proper jet engine seems they chose two variants, the first series will be under powered, but still will test the main airframe and avionics, and the series II aircraft with the proper engine by 2020 or beyond.

Perhaps they want the Su-35s engines for the initial series, which in my opinion is the most likely situation, but that will mean the program has chosen different engine solutions, in order to chose a quicker induction, but if the engine is in the class of 117 or F119 then my respects to the Chinese however i do not think that is the case.

But anyway who knows perhaps they did it:)

I don't believe that is the case you call yourself engineer but you should know nobody change horse in the middle of the race.
Changing engine right now will set ack the program by at least 5 years because you don't shift the CW of the engine and expect your fly by wire to work. And changing the fly by wire is not an overnight programming. It is tedious and time consuming. So the likelihood they use Russian engine is NIL.

The fact they celebrate the beginning what look like LRIP, show that they have high degree of confidence that the engine will be there when production start. Sofar there is nothing that contradict this.

They still have 2 more years before production . In the mean time they can produce plane for CFTC to develop tactic, doctrine and integration issue that can be used to fine tune the production model

I am not sure about the socalled sale of Russian Su 35 as closed done deal We have no confirmation from Chinese military sofar.
But it has nothing to do with J 20 program.

I don't know what is the motivation maybe for sparring partner for J 20. Or helping Russian aerospace to get sale for Su 35 going,
Have a peek of how the Russian manage to increase the range of Su 35

As to your contention that western weapon defeat all the Russian weapon is just your own opnion

As Plawolf has said before the west hasn't fight any peer or near peer since the Korean war. Beating up 2nd rate military power with export version of Russian weapon and dubious military leadership doesn't count as proof of western superiority.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member

Robert Michael Gates was held over from the previous, disastrous, administration. That was President Obama's second biggest mistake.

His first was giving Hillary Clinton the Secretary of Defense job!

Oh, but that's right, no on else can launch political asides here!


LOL!!!
IMHO, such snidery is not all that becoming to you Janak

As to your comment about political asides...well, I think you just did...and many others have. So that particular statement is demonstrably not accurate.

It's when folks either discuss specific topics forbidden by SD rules, or go off the edge into pure ideological rants and such that things get moderated. You don't agree with a lot of that I know...but that's fine, you have every right to not agree with whatever your heart desires.

No worries.

To be sure, Gates was most definitely held over, on that you are exactly right and we agree. What he said about the Chinese and Russian programs was said when he was in the process of instituting new policy...as a reason for halting F-22 production.

As far as Hillary Clinton goes, well she was put in as Secretary of State...not defense.

But, as I say...no worries. That is all now water under the bridge and long since gone.

My point in that post of mine was simply that the Chinese have done amazing things with their J-20 Program. Perhaps we can focus n that?

I salute them for doing so...they are showing everyone that their ability to develop, design, and fi8eld a 5h generation aircraft is very far advanced.

My hat is off to them.
 
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Also big progress happens in 2014 and 2015

2011, 2012 and 2013 were slow years

2013 in particular but then they were using that for the build up in 2014
One in 2011, one in 2012, four in 2014 and now three in 2015...with this last appearing (at least to me) to be a production aircraft perhaps.

This is very significant progress and they clearly instituted significant updates/improvements in 2014...refined them in 2015...and I believe they are going to go into LRIP now.

We shall see...time will tell.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
that will depend upon what engine they are using, if the engine does not allow to super cruise and thrust vector, then China took less risky path, i mean if it can super cruise, yes they eclipsed other stealth programs, but without it, it is an aircraft that still will eventually need to fix what others are still struggling to do now, and with the advances in radar and SAMs, then the aircraft will be at higher risk of being defeated in combat
Supercruise is mainly to increase the range of the fighter; at this time, I don't think the J-20 suffers from a range deficit compared to its peers so supercruise is not the greatest concern for J-20. Thrust vectoring is not a huge deal either, especially not for a delta canard design, which is inherently highly maneuverable. I think that with current delta canards, the maneuverability is nearing a point where the pilots are the limitation, so adding thrust vectoring would not contribute significantly, except to engine weight. If it would, I doubt it would be too difficult for China to negotiate the acquisition of thrust-vectored AL-31 from Russia, even if China itself wasn't experienced enough with the technology to add it to Taihang engines. In my opinion, the main things that the J-20 could gain from engine improvement is extra thrust and rear-quarter stealth. But as a stealth jet approaching its target head on in an ambush attack, the J-20 is quite mature as is.
war is not sport, it is not mean to be fair, it means war, to win the edge by unfair means, to be fair means to lose the war, wars are win by unfairness, by advantages. anyway let us get back on topic
Well, the point isn't that it's not ok to go to war with an unfair advantage; the point is that due to these overwhelmingly unfair advantages (which would most likely not be available against a near peer), one could not evaluate the outcome to draw a meaningful conclusion in the one-vs.-one sense.
 

longmarch

Junior Member
Registered Member
Policy agenda aside, what Gates was thinking was likely a J-20 with its "final" engine, i.e. WS-15, which is still years ahead.
However with long-lifecycle weapon platforms like this, nothing is really "final", upgrades and improvements will keep coming when they are available. Without upgrade even subsystems of F-22A are no longer state-of-art. Rather than holding everything for WS-15, it's a very sensible decision to use an interim engine for its first batch, which is still a very capable aircraft against its potential opponents. Even F-22A didn't have everything ready with its first delivery. Well done 611!

I appreciate this pragmatism, I also like the open-mindedness of the acquisition of a small number of Su-35. But I don't think they are going for 117S for J-20.

I think in the next a few years it'll probably more fun to watch PLA navy developments than its air force. There may be a new strategic bomber coming, and WS-15, then some incremental improvements on the air force side. But on the navy side let's see 002! let's see 055! Let's see 054B with IEP! Let's see navilized J-20! Let's see the nuclear powered carrier with EMCAT! Let's see the airstrips in SCS put into some good use! It'll be 10+ years before all of them becoming reality but it's exciting to watch!
 

GreenestGDP

Junior Member
Developing a J-20 Combat Manual

3x Golden Helmet Champions ( JJJ ) and his other Top Notch
PLAAF + PLAN Golden Helmet Champions have been tasked
to create 2 manuals ... ...


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2) PLA Integrated Battle Network Killzone Setting, Combining
KJ-2000, KJ-200, J-20, J-11xx, J-10xx, J-16xx, HK6,
SAM Assets, EW Assets manual



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Hitting 5 pictures limit rule ... ... ...



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