Chinese purchase of Su-35

Air Force Brat

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
siegecrossbow said:
Kinda like what they did with F-22s?
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If you think the F-22 isn't "combat ready" you should prolly have a conversation with the ENG, and I'm really surprised that you of all people might question the veracity and effectiveness of the many Red Flag exercises, where in order to get participants to sign up, you have to tie one hand behind its back? But there are people in the DFW area? who know the score, Nellis is not that far away, but please check it out and get back to us???

That's all the US military does is train to meet the expected threat? multiplied by about 4X, the F-22 is combat ready, and now it has been proven in combat?? NO big deal, now if you want to question the F-35, lets send in those Marine Bs? they will no doubt take name and kick butt, but at least that's still a viable question?
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Air Force Brat said:
If you think the F-22 isn't "combat ready" you should prolly have a conversation with the ENG, and I'm really surprised that you of all people might question the veracity and effectiveness of the many Red Flag exercises, where in order to get participants to sign up, you have to tie one hand behind its back? But there are people in the DFW area? who know the score, Nellis is not that far away, but please check it out and get back to us???

That's all the US military does is train to meet the expected threat? multiplied by about 4X, the F-22 is combat ready, and now it has been proven in combat?? NO big deal, now if you want to question the F-35, lets send in those Marine Bs? they will no doubt take name and kick butt, but at least that's still a viable question?
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You misunderstood me man. What I meant was using a top of line air superiority fighter to drop million dollar smart bombs on terrorist donkey carts that cost twenty dollars.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I see some are going back to the old arguments and trying to serve crow. Guess what? Every time people said before there was a signed deal, they've been wrong that many times. And through those many times of being wrong on the deal that was supposedly done and signed has already changed from initially 48 Su-35s down to 24. 48 for $4 billion to 24 for $2 billion? Exactly half. If Russia was in the driver's seat shouldn't it be more money since they first didn't want to sell less than 48 for profitability and copying concerns? Sounds to me China was the one playing hardball. Ever hear of beggars can't be choosers? China seems to be choosing the details here. If there have been negotiations going on this long, it's Russia that had to give up something not China. If China's fate depended on having this fighter, it would be more fighters not less.

The fact is Russia needed a buyer to get the ball rolling. The fact is China isn't really going to be a straight on competitor against Russia in selling top-line fighters on the world stage for a while. The fact is countries that are natural potential buyers for the Su-35 are mostly those the US doesn't trust. China can afford to give Russia this deal in more ways than one. There's a lot of speculation on why this sale went through. I can speculate too. No one was buying this fighter. China could've simply not bought it and impact any other possible sales. No one else had it. It doesn't change anything regarding the geo-political balance of the world. It certainly helps more for Russia in selling this fighter because China has bought it.
 
Brumby

Brumby

Major
There had essentially been two distinct narratives being constantly mentioned. The one prior to the deal being confirmed is the narrative that China could not possibly be interested because China is ahead of what can be offered by the SU-35. The narrative has somewhat shifted since the deal being confirmed to that of doing Russia a favour. The simpler explanation is that a deal comes together when there is a willing buyer and a willing seller. Whatever may be the reason(s) and the speculation for it, "
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". If China is drinking, there is a need.
 
b787

b787

Captain
nkvd said:
i think this is proof that the su35 onboard avionics will be Russian.
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but i dont expect the denials to stop
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The Malaysian deal is not yet confirmed officially. however the Chinese one is an now has even an English version in the Kret official page.

An despite all the speculation, this is the official version of how the deal happened

KRET is creating radar and other systems for the latest Russian fighter

Russia and China have signed a contract to purchase
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fighters, as Rostec CEO Sergey Chemezov told Kommersant. According to him, China will purchase 24 aircraft for $2 billion.

"The long negotiations for the supply of Su-35 to China have finished, and we signed the contract,” said Sergey Chemezov, as quoted by the newspaper.

Under the agreement, the Chinese Air Force will receive 24 fighter aircraft, worth about $2 billion, or about $83 million per jet. Thus, China has officially become the first foreign purchaser of Su-35 fighters.

The Chinese military first expressed interest in the Russian fighter back in 2008 during the aerospace show Airshow China. China's Air Force Commander Colonel General Xu Qiliang then examined and evaluated the capabilities and characteristics of the fighter from Sukhoi on the stand. In 2011, the Chinese Defense Ministry officially asked Russia about buying Su-35 fighters.

A preliminary agreement was signed at the end of 2012, and the subsequent coordination of technical and financial conditions took three years. According to Kommersant, the delay was due to the fact that China requested to change the appearance of the aircraft and install its own avionics in the cockpit.

In May of this year, the Pentagon released a report suggesting the possibility of China purchasing Su-35 fighters from Russia. “To further strengthen its tactical air forces, China is likely to acquire from Russia the Su-35 fighters equipped with the advanced radar control system Irbis,” the report concluded.

Tikhomirov Scientific Research Institute of Instrument Design (NIIP) and Ryazan State Instrument Enterprise (RSIE), both part of KRET, developed the Russian aviation radar
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with passive phased array antenna.

By many indicators, Irbis is superior to most foreign radars with passive and active phased array antennas. With this radar system, the Su-35 can detect targets at ranges up to 400 km, track up to 30 air targets at once, and simultaneously fire on eight of them.

Other KRET enterprises developed the “glass cockpit” and other avionics systems for the Su-35. In particular, KRET experts developed a new navigation system for the fighter, the SINS-SP2 strapdown
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.

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b787

b787

Captain
Brumby said:
There had essentially been two distinct narratives being constantly mentioned. The one prior to the deal being confirmed is the narrative that China could not possibly be interested because China is ahead of what can be offered by the SU-35. The narrative has somewhat shifted since the deal being confirmed to that of doing Russia a favour. The simpler explanation is that a deal comes together when there is a willing buyer and a willing seller. Whatever may be the reason(s) and the speculation for it, "
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". If China is drinking, there is a need.
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well said
 
tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
b787 said:
The Malaysian deal is not yet confirmed officially. however the Chinese one is an now has even an English version in the Kret official page.

An despite all the speculation, this is the official version of how the deal happened
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well, that's what the Chinese sources have been saying. Will see how much of these Chinese avionics will get installed in there.
 
AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Brumby said:
There had essentially been two distinct narratives being constantly mentioned. The one prior to the deal being confirmed is the narrative that China could not possibly be interested because China is ahead of what can be offered by the SU-35. The narrative has somewhat shifted since the deal being confirmed to that of doing Russia a favour. The simpler explanation is that a deal comes together when there is a willing buyer and a willing seller. Whatever may be the reason(s) and the speculation for it, "
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". If China is drinking, there is a need.
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Doesn't explain why the order went down since all the arguments before were about profitability and concern of copying. If those were the concerns less numbers decrease profitability and especially if copying is a risk. Need means more not less. If it were China that begged for 48 Su-35s that Russia didn't want to sell as argued, why is it now 24 at the same cost per fighter given at first the concerns over profitability and copying? If this is happening, it's a side deal proven here that Russia is going to risk profitability and copying at half the number from the beginning because they're getting something else out of it that makes those concerns acceptable.
 
P

PanAsian

Major
AssassinsMace said:
Doesn't explain why the order went down since all the arguments before were about profitability and concern of copying. If those were the concerns less numbers decrease profitability and especially if copying is a risk. Need means more not less. If it were China that begged for 48 Su-35s that Russia didn't want to sell as argued, why is it now 24 at the same cost per fighter given at first the concerns over profitability and copying? If this is happening, it's a side deal proven here that Russia is going to risk profitability and copying at half the number from the beginning because they're getting something else out of it that makes those concerns acceptable.
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On a strategic level China and Russia very much need each other, now is also an opportune time for the two to co-operate rather than compete, I doubt that either would be so foolish as to hardball the other to the point of distaste in what can only amount to a relatively minor deal.
 
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