Chinese Aviation Industry
- Thread starter FriedRiceNSpice
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Guys ... are we still in the Chinese Aviation Industry tread or is the topic now not more than off ?
Due to the long and sometimes off-topic (but anyway interesting) discussion in the "Chines Aviation Industry" tread and since the C919 surely deserves an own tread ... continue please here:
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/comac-c919-chinas-first-modern-airliner.t7897/
Deino
Due to the long and sometimes off-topic (but anyway interesting) discussion in the "Chines Aviation Industry" tread and since the C919 surely deserves an own tread ... continue please here:
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/comac-c919-chinas-first-modern-airliner.t7897/
Deino
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TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
posted before creation if new thread moving there.
broadsword
Brigadier
An interesting viewpoint on Chinas entry into commercial aviation . Its well worth .reading
"The Chinese have publicly stated that they did not expect to produce a world-beating aircraft out of the box, and that the ARJ-21 was to be a learning experience. But they did expect to make an aircraft that could be competitive, given the capital cost differential, for Chinese airlines, which they have done.
The table above shows the seating is virtually identical in a typical two-class configuration. But then the other numbers come into play – the ARJ is much heavier; 16% more than the CRJ and 14.4% heavier than the E-175. This causes an interesting requirement – all three use various version of the GE CF-34 engine. The CRJ needs 14,500 pounds thrust, the E-175 needs 14,200 pounds, while the ARJ needs 17,000 pounds. This puts the ARJ at a substantial disadvantage in terms of fuel burn and economics.
Of course, thrust requirements are closely linked to weight, and the ARJ-21 is heavier than its competitors. The extra MTOW doesn’t give the aircraft any benefit. It flies slower and has close to the range, but not quite, of the E-175.
A key differentiator in favor of the ARJ-21 is its cabin, which is wider that its competitors by a significant amount; 22.8% wider than the CRJ and 14.8% wider than the E-175. The question is whether this turns out to be an advantage that airlines can really use.
In summary, it seems the ARJ is simply too heavy to be competitive economically for airlines that have a free choice in fleet selection. If an airline orders this aircraft based on economics, it would need to be offered, shall we say, a “deal it can’t refuse.” On the face of it, the ARJ is not even closely competitive with its Western competition, except on price.
But that is not what COMAC is focused on. China is playing the long-term game, gaining experience in the industry. The ARJ is a great vehicle from which to learn the art of making commercial aircraft. It doesn’t matter that the ARJ is essentially a DC-9 replica. What matters is that China and COMAC will get better at the process – the C919 is likely to be much better than the ARJ-21 when compared to its peers – like the A320ceo and 737NG. The C919 aircraft will be economically outclassed by its competition, the A320neo and 737MAX. But that won’t matter either, as again, that is the short-term perspective, and a ten-year piece of a fifty-year goal. The C929, or whatever airplane follows, will significantly close the gap as China continues down the aerospace learning curve.
Aerospace is about the long term, and COMAC is a comer. Their planned joint venture into the wide-body space with Russia could break the current duopoly in the wide-body segment. The question is how long it will take for COMAC to become fully competitive with Airbus and Boeing. It took Airbus about 20 years to develop the A320, its first truly world-class competitive aircraft. Twenty years from now, COMAC will be a much different company than we see today, and in thirty years, could be one of the big three aircraft manufacturers, rather than the non-factor in the market that it is today.
Yep. At one time, it was said, that FAA advised COMAC to abandon seeking certification for ARJ21 and focus on C919. COMAC insisted going through the whole process to the end. COMAC inherited ARJ21 from AVIC (it predated the establishment of COMAC in 2007).
That's the right decision. The whole ARJ21 project had become a training project of sort. That just shows the determination of China to succeed in the commercial aviation space.
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Or one of the Big Two. Airbus was founded in 1970, Lockheed ended L-1011 in 1984, MD-11 production ended in 2001 after McDonnell Douglas was taken over by Boeing in 1997.
Quickie
Colonel
First China-developed regional jet delivered
The ARJ21, China's first commericial regional aircraft, is parked at the Shuangliu International Airport in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province, Nov. 29, 2015. The passenger plane, ARJ21, produced by the Shanghai-headquartered Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China (COMAC), was delivered to Chengdu Airlines on Sunday. Xiangfeng (Flying Phoenix) is a 90-passenger capacity twin-engine jet, with a standard range of 2,220 kilometers. It is expected to ply busy routes such as Chengdu-Beijing and Chengdu-Shanghai. COMAC has received more than 300 orders from 19 airlines, including three from the Republic of Congo. (Xinhua/Pei Xin)
SHANGHAI, Nov. 29 (Xinhua) -- The first model of China's homegrown commercial regional aircraft, the ARJ21, was delivered on Sunday.
The jet bought by Chengdu Airlines left its manufacturing base of the Shanghai-headquartered Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China to Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province.
Staff members of Chengdu Airlines hold a welcoming ceremony for the ARJ21, China's first commericial regional aircraft, in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province, Nov. 29, 2015. The passenger plane, ARJ21, produced by the Shanghai-headquartered Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China (COMAC), was delivered to Chengdu Airlines on Sunday. Xiangfeng (Flying Phoenix) is a 90-passenger capacity twin-engine jet, with a standard range of 2,220 kilometers. It is expected to ply busy routes such as Chengdu-Beijing and Chengdu-Shanghai. COMAC has received more than 300 orders from 19 airlines, including three from the Republic of Congo.
The ARJ21, China's first commericial regional aircraft, is parked at the Shuangliu International Airport in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province, Nov. 29, 2015. The passenger plane, ARJ21, produced by the Shanghai-headquartered Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China (COMAC), was delivered to Chengdu Airlines on Sunday. Xiangfeng (Flying Phoenix) is a 90-passenger capacity twin-engine jet, with a standard range of 2,220 kilometers. It is expected to ply busy routes such as Chengdu-Beijing and Chengdu-Shanghai. COMAC has received more than 300 orders from 19 airlines, including three from the Republic of Congo. (Xinhua/Pei Xin)
SHANGHAI, Nov. 29 (Xinhua) -- The first model of China's homegrown commercial regional aircraft, the ARJ21, was delivered on Sunday.
The jet bought by Chengdu Airlines left its manufacturing base of the Shanghai-headquartered Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China to Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province.
Staff members of Chengdu Airlines hold a welcoming ceremony for the ARJ21, China's first commericial regional aircraft, in Chengdu, capital of southwest China's Sichuan Province, Nov. 29, 2015. The passenger plane, ARJ21, produced by the Shanghai-headquartered Commercial Aircraft Corp. of China (COMAC), was delivered to Chengdu Airlines on Sunday. Xiangfeng (Flying Phoenix) is a 90-passenger capacity twin-engine jet, with a standard range of 2,220 kilometers. It is expected to ply busy routes such as Chengdu-Beijing and Chengdu-Shanghai. COMAC has received more than 300 orders from 19 airlines, including three from the Republic of Congo.