China's overland Silk Road and Maritime Silk Road Thread

delft

Brigadier
Nice. But at this time, the lines from Tehran-Baku-Tbilisi-Kars-Ankara-Istanbul-Edirne seems to be at a more advance stage. See “Harmonization of the Silk Road Economic Belt and the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road with the Middle Corridor Initiative” and "Railroad Cooperation Agreement between Turkey and China”.

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I know, but I couldn't resist to refer to a prosperous future for Iraq and Syria as they are connected to Central Asia and Central Asia is connected to them, to the Mediterranean and eventually to Cairo.
 
I know, but I couldn't resist to refer to a prosperous future for Iraq and Syria as they are connected to Central Asia and Central Asia is connected to them, to the Mediterranean and eventually to Cairo.

I hear and sympathize also. It is my wish also that Syria and Lebanon and Egypt can escape their present predicament. Sadly that may not happen soon for geopolitical reasons beyond their control.
 
I think there is a large untapped potential for Agricultural and Meat Product trade between China and Russia. Fruit and Vegetable from China, Grain and Meat Product from Russia.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/ch...me-silk-road-thread.t7264/page-18#post-376129
Freight train opens new opportunities for China-Russia exports
(Xinhua) Updated: 2015-11-27 16:41
HOHHOT - A chartered train carrying Chinese 160 tons of fruit and vegetables to Moscow has passed through China's largest land checkpoint with Russia, in a logistics breakthrough that could greatly boost trade.

After being cleared by customs in Manzhouli of North China's Inner Mongolia autonomous region, the refrigerated train is expected to arrive in Moscow at the beginning of December following a trip lasting 12 to 14 days.

If the cargo sells well in the Russian capital, the checkpoint will provide swift clearance for repeats of the service, said Rong Zibin, chief inspection and quarantine official of Manzhouli, on Friday.

Local supply of fruit and vegetables in Moscow is inadequate in its long winter, creating an export opportunity for Chinese farmers.

The 160 tons of produce was gathered from the Chinese agricultural heartlands of Zhejiang, Fujian and Shandong provinces.

Manzhouli handles 60 percent of China's land freight to Russia. China exports 400,000 tons of fruit and vegetables to Russia through there annually.

It has mainly been carried by lorries destined for Russia's Novosibirsk, a freight hub more than 3,000 km from Moscow. Cargo train trips from Manzhouli to Novosibirsk take 90 hours.

Rong said Chinese logistics firms are keen to invest in more refrigerated train services if there is steady demand in Moscow.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
In a world full of strife, mayhem,religious zealot, refugee and desperation. Here is a ray of hope for better tomorrow

After long construction the new Djibouti to Addis Abeba is slated to open early next year
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    • Can Ethiopia’s railway bring peace to Somalia?
      By Mary Harper Africa editor, BBC World Service News, Addis AbabaImage copyright Ethiopian Railway Corporation
      "We decided to open the railway early because of the drought, the worst in decades," says Getachew Betru, chief executive of the Ethiopian Railways Corporation (ERC).

      It is a Saturday, but this thoughtful, intelligent man is busy working. Except for the guards at the gate, nobody else is at the office.

      Across the road, a white and green train whisks up to a station platform. It is part of Addis Ababa's
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      , the first in sub-Saharan Africa.

      Mr Getachew shows me diagrams of a vast planned railway network, snaking its way across landlocked Ethiopia, linking Africa's second most populous country to Djibouti, Sudan, South Sudan and Kenya.

      The railway is his baby. Like many Ethiopians, he left the country during the harsh years of dictatorship, but returned with a doctorate in engineering and a vision.

      It all started when he took a trip with his family.

      "We were driving through the countryside when we came across a railway track. Like so many boys, my sons loved trains and insisted we wait for one. It never came. I asked somebody when it might arrive. He told me it had been 10 years since the last train. I decided to try to do something about it. Now they call me Ethiopia's Brunel, after the famous
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      ."

      Pan-African dream
      The dream is that one day, the railway will extend from the Red Sea in Djibouti all the way across Africa to the Atlantic Ocean. A few wars will have to end first.

      Due to the urgent need to feed the 8.2 million people Ethiopia says are suffering from the drought, the Addis Ababa-Djibouti line opened ahead of schedule on 20 November.

      The first train to travel along the nearly 800km track delivered more than 3,000 tonnes of grain from Djibouti port to drought-affected areas. The United Nations says more than 15 million people will be in need of emergency food aid by the beginning of 2016.

      The ERC says the railway will completely transform the way humanitarian assistance is delivered, in a country regularly affected by drought. "The trains will deliver bulk quantities of food aid very close to drought-affected people. It will do this in a matter of a few hours," says ERC technical adviser, Muluken Mesfin.

    • "One thousand five hundred trucks a day leave Djibouti port for Ethiopia," says the chairman of the Djibouti Port Authority, Abubaker Hadi. "It is projected there will be 8,000 a day by 2020. This is not feasible. That is why the railway is so desperately needed."

      Mr Getachew agrees: "It can take trucks two to three weeks to reach Addis from Djibouti. They break down all the time and the road gets congested. Once it is fully operational the railway will cut the journey to about five hours, as the trains will travel at 120 km/h. This will save money as well as time."

      Chinese track
      The Chinese-built track runs parallel to the abandoned Ethio-Djibouti railway, built more than 100 years ago by France for Emperor Menelik. Costing some $3bn (£2bn), it starts at sea level in Djibouti. It then makes its way through Ethiopia's dramatic, challenging terrain until it reaches Addis Ababa, about 2,500m above sea level.

      Mr Getachew expresses bewilderment at the World Bank and Western donors such as the European Union, who, he says, were reluctant to fund the railway project. "I think the road lobby was too strong. We ended up with the Chinese, who are not only constructing the railway, but providing most of the funding too."


      Potential for peace
      The economic potential of Ethiopia's planned 5,000km rail network is obvious. But the railway might do a whole lot more, both in terms of regional integration and maybe even peacemaking.

      Railways are being constructed all over Africa. The East African Railway Master Plan hopes to revive existing lines in Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania, eventually extending them to Rwanda, Burundi, South Sudan and Ethiopia.
      Mr Getachew hints at another potential role. He shows me how the Addis-Djibouti line lies close to Ethiopia's border with
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      , which declared independence in 1991 but has not been recognised internationally.

      There has long been talk of linking Ethiopia with Somaliland's underused and underdeveloped Berbera port, which is 854km by road from Addis Ababa.

      Ethiopia would then have an alternative to Djibouti, which is one of the world's most expensive ports and is becoming ever-more congested due to the increased demands of Africa's fast-growing economies.

      'Win-win'
      A railway could also bring wealth to Somalis, suggests Mr Getachew. Somalia has the longest coastline in Africa, and has rich fish stocks. But Somalis are not keen on eating fish.

      "Ethiopians have two fasting days a week when we only eat fish. As a landlocked country, we only have Nile perch and tilapia. As our economy grows, at about 10% a year, demand increases for more variety. This could be a win-win situation."

    • Constructing a rail link to Berbera would be a major challenge. This is mainly because Somaliland's ambiguous status means it would be difficult to secure vital international funding. But the territory is relatively stable, and, unlike in conflict-ridden southern and central Somalia, a railway line is unlikely to face threats of sabotage.

      Somalia has several ports, and the potential for many more. It is possible to envisage rail lines linking Ethiopia and the Somali interior with ports all the way down the country, from Zeila in the north-east to Kismayo in the south.

      This prospect for economic growth might serve as an incentive for the weak, sometimes directionless Somali government, and indeed foreign donors who have poured billions into the country since it fell apart nearly 30 years ago, often to little effect.

      Perhaps the idea of a railway would spur on Somalis and their allies to drive out violent groups, including the al-Qaeda linked movement al-Shabab, which controls much of the country.

      As one Ethiopian rail enthusiast put it: "Maybe Mr Getachew will be remembered not only as Ethiopia's Brunel but as a peacemaker for the entire region."

      Tracking China's rail investments in Africa
      Image copyright Getty Images
      In April, China Railway Construction Corp signed a $3.5bn (£2.3bn) contract to build an intercity rail line in Nigeria.

      That followed a $12bn contract for another Nigerian rail line last year, which at the time was the biggest foreign contract won by a Chinese state-owned firm. The line is planned to run 1,400km along the Nigerian coast.

      China is also building major rail projects in Angola (under an infrastructure-for-oil deal), DR Congo, Kenya and Tanzania.

      Chinese infrastructure investments overseas are commonly underpinned by finance from Beijing-backed lenders such as China Development Bank. The rail projects are expected to generate billions of dollars in export orders for Chinese trainmakers.

      Big Chinese investments in Africa have been controversial for several reasons, including use of imported Chinese labour, alleged poor treatment of workers and lack of transparency at the state-owned companies involved.

      Many African countries have a compelling need for new or upgraded rail links, to boost trade, investment and development, but they have lacked finance.

      Much of the existing network was built by mining companies in the colonial era to link industrial sites to ports. Passenger services account for less than 20% of African rail traffic, according to the African Development Bank.

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delft

Brigadier
Railways are being constructed all over Africa. The East African Railway Master Plan hopes to revive existing lines in Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania, eventually extending them to Rwanda, Burundi, South Sudan and Ethiopia.
As always BBC is unreliable. The East African Railways Master Plan is largely about replacing narrow gauge railways by standard gauge ones as well as extending the new railways into further countries.
But it is true that most of that is by Chinese companies which also train local staff to run and maintain them.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
After 5 years of wait Finally construction will start on Laos section of Yunnan - Vientiane railway. It is the first railway line in the country Wow
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The Lao section of the China-Laos railway is expected to begin construction in early December, which will be the first modern railway for the Southeast Asian country when completed by 2020, the Huaxi Metropolis Daily reported.


The line will start in border city Boten and travel past Luang Namtha, Luwang Prabang and Vang Vieng before arriving in capital Vientiane, with average speed set at 160 kph.


Earlier reports said construction of the Chinese section between Yuxi and Mohan began in January. The Kunming-Yuxi railway, whose reconstruction has already been under way, will test run by late 2016, according to the newspaper.

China and Laos signed an agreement on Nov 13, planning to use Chinese technology and equipment to build a 418-km line that will connect Kunming, capital of southwestern China's Yunnan province, with Vientiane.

The cross-border railway's average speed is set at 160 kph and 60 percent of the line will be bridges and tunnels. China will be responsible for 70 percent of the 40-billion-yuan ($6.27 billion) investment, while Laos will be responsible for the remainder.

The two nations began to discuss the line in 2010, but the project had not made any substantial development since then due to investment issues.

Railway authorities from both sides did not speed up their work until April 2014 when Lao Prime Minister Thongsing Thammavong visited China and met with President Xi Jinping and Premier Li Keqiang.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
BTW,

We Chinese overshadow the Indians in every measurable ways; that is because we Chinese are simply far better. As a result, the Indians will always hate (envy) us ! Which is not a problem !
It's attitude like yours that doomed China to look inward and allow the West and Japan to overtake it and in time invade its land and make the Chinese people second class citizens in their own land. China is blessed its leaders aren't so stupid.
 

Zool

Junior Member
Nah, it will never happen again.

Chinese leaders have attitude just like me that is why modern China is going to trump !

Just look at what Mao did in the 40s, 50s, 60s.
Then look at what Hu Jintao did.

And now what Xi Jing Ping is doing ! They have attitude and thoughts just like me ! Which is why China is doing great !

We befriend with Pakistan and keep India in check and under watch. We also have Tibet as a natural barrier and keep the Indians in check. (Not forget to mention that we beat the Indians in 1962 !)
We destroyed Korea and sliced it in half and now they do not pose a threat.
We slowly destroyed Japanese companies and their know how and now they can never attack us.
We isolate Taiwan and crippled its economy and now they can never become independent.
We also hollowed out US manufacturing and made US wasted 10 years in Afghanistan and Iraq and now we are equal to US.
We also build massive military bases in South China Sea to control it and keep Vietnam down forever, so that they will never be able to threaten us.

You see, it is people like me that China is thriving and doing great!

You seem very angry and I must say, this type of rhetoric sounds more like an attempt to tarnish China than anything else. I have never spoken with an actual Chinese individual who had such an extreme perspective.

My take on China and Chinese leadership is one of pragmatism and seeking to leverage it's strength (in all aspects) to further it's growth and development into a leading economy and society. It's a long game. The Chinese will not overtly risk disrupting their development goals by initiating conflict, as the losses will most likely outweigh any potential gains. But I do expect China would defend it's core interests if militarily challenged; otherwise it's status quo until negotiations resolve outstanding disputes.

The entire premise of the Silk Route is to open up markets for further Chinese investment/profit while at the same time benefiting the economic development of partner nations, and bringing them further into the Chinese sphere of influence as a byproduct. That can't happen in a hostile environment and is the opposite mentality to crippling neighbor economies and establishing regional military domination. Mutual prosperity is recognized as a contributor to peaceful relations and the Chinese leadership is thankfully aware of this, as evident by the inclusion of similar comments in many of the Chinese speeches during regional body meetings and state visits.
 

Ultra

Junior Member
India is to be part of the project as a member of BRICS, SCO, AIIB &c., so the Indian navy is expected to protect the maritime trade of not only India and China but of all the countries concerned. I read that Brazil too will be a member of AIIB ....



China knows it is critical to get India involved in AIIB because it gives India more incentive not to have direct confrontation with China because it would mean dire economic consequences for itself.



Transit security is a requirement for any trade route. It's a multi-national concern and not one only applying to China. The routes you illustrated see the passage of goods from many countries besides China. Those goods bound for China, or from China, are not all China flagged vessels. An interdiction/blockade strategy by India is a lot more complicated than you may think.

Honestly your entire sentiment reads like some of the nonsense posted on bharat rakshak. The MSR initiative and AIIB are about ensuring viable avenues of economic growth for China over the coming decades. Security as mentioned above is a concern sure, but it's not the prime motivator here. I also do not think China views India as a primary threat or is actively acting against it -- although I cannot say the same of India vis-a-vis China; which is unfortunate considering the prosperity both nations could bring about in the region if acting as true partners minus the paranoid suspicion.



What I don't understand is why are so many members naively believe "trasnsit security" would be guaranteed in time of conflict or war. India's current and future politics and general public sentiment is hostile to China and there is no reason to believe otherwise; and they may very well play the hand to "cut off China" by sea lanes by playing their containment strategy on China if relationship turns from veiled hostility into overt hostility. There is a reason why India is buying and investing a lot of toys and infrastructures for their navy, from Rafales to building 3 aircraft carriers, naval long range interdiction / strike aircrafts, drones, destroyers, submarines...etc.



The trade route / sea lanes is very critical part of China's economy and livelihood. The Chinese leadership understands this is one of its biggest weakness as China has very little logistical means to fight a long distance prolonged war over its sea lane right now against potential opponents such as India or US. It is a reason why Chinese leadership started AIIB and the One-Belt strategy, to offset the reliance on the sea lane supply routes. At the same time, they are beefing up its navy by parallel development of logistical supply routes in all dimensions (off-shore navy bases in Indian Ocean, supply ports, supply ships).
 
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Zool

Junior Member
China knows it is critical to get India involved in AIIB because it gives India more incentive not to have direct confrontation with China because it would mean dire economic consequences for itself.

What I don't understand is why are so many members naively believe "trasnsit security" would be guaranteed in time of conflict or war. India's current and future politics and general public sentiment is hostile to China and there is no reason to believe otherwise; and they may very well play the hand to "cut off China" by sea lanes by playing their containment strategy on China if relationship turns from veiled hostility into overt hostility. There is a reason why India is buying and investing a lot of toys and infrastructures for their navy, from Rafales to building 3 aircraft carriers, naval long range interdiction / strike aircrafts, drones, destroyers, submarines...etc.

The trade route / sea lanes is very critical part of China's economy and livelihood. The Chinese leadership understands this is one of its biggest weakness as China has very little logistical means to fight a long distance prolonged war over its sea lane right now against potential opponents such as India or US. It is a reason why Chinese leadership started AIIB and the One-Belt strategy, to offset the reliance on the sea lane supply routes. At the same time, they are beefing up its navy by parallel development of logistical supply routes in all dimensions (off-shore navy bases in Indian Ocean, supply ports, supply ships).

Well to begin with, trade is very different today from that of the 1930's - 1940's (blockade of UK during WWII as example), where merchant fleets were very much nationalized. The world is now much more interconnected and mingled to the point where you can have a Cargo Vessel flagged under one country, owned by a corporation of another country, and crewed by personnel from two or three different countries. How do you know who you are really targeting?

So with that being the case, in a limited or regional conflict, taking shots at cargo ships would seriously piss off one or more outside nations and the greater international community, risking sanctions and added hostility for the country doing the shooting.

What is more likely these days: In a conflict where the balance of naval forces is relatively equal (we have not seen that for awhile now), each side would set exclusion zones due to conflict, requiring cargo ships to take alternative extended and more costly routes. Or where the balance of naval forces is not equal, the stronger force would declare an exclusion zone as close as possible to the weaker combatants coast, blocking trade as a result of operations. That blockading nation could face varying degree's of international pressure depending on the geopolitical situation but cargo ships would not approach due to insurance clauses and general safety concerns. Either way, no responsible country is going to be firing on cargo vessels unless it is WW3.

As for India - China the same applies. AeroEngineer was also correct in noting that the CPEC project has provisions to bring in energy supplies from the ME through over-land routes which would circumvent the Indian Ocean and add to overall energy security for China. Beyond that, and not wishing to get any further into an India versus China discussion, India does not look like it will have the capacity to challenge China in a serious naval conflict anytime soon, per current and future projected assets and shipbuilding infrastructure on both sides. The entire 'strategy' of simply sinking all transport headed to and from China as a means to defeat it has not been well thought out by the internet warriors who suggested it ;) Better for neighbors to trade and focus on development. Which is what I see China and India doing, rhetoric aside.
 
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