Chinese purchase of Su-35

tphuang

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The idea that China needs to copy Su-35 is written without much consideration of supporting evidences. They already have the ability to make flankers and the advantage of Su-35 over flankers is the engine and the avionics. So if anything, it would make sense for them to get Tot on the engine. And With J-20 coming, Su-35 is an interim gap solution to provide PLAAF with something better than all the flankers they have up till now.
 

Brainsuker

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think we should all hold our horses a little as to whether China will actually want to use the Su-35 purchase to have 117S engines for its other fighters.
Personally I think adding 117S onto J-11D is a needless modification that will probably complicate its development with minimal gain in capability... however initial batch of J-20s may benefit from 117S installed.

Or maybe the Air Force won't bother with 117S on its own aircraft at all, who knows.

Wait, how could J-11D get minimum gain in capability while J-20 get benefit from 117S installed? What make the two different in getting 117S Engine?
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
That is simply a display of arrogance by some posters. The SU-35 is a frontline plane of the Russians and at least should be accorded the respect it deserves.
Looking at it logically, Su35 is the only 4.5 gen out there with no AESA, probably the most indicative new tech on any 4.5 gen, basically little difference from 4th gen, zero foreign sales, not even to India, low volume even with RuAF and contrary to what you say, kept well away from front-line duties near Nato & Syria.
As for the timing of this rumor of sales, dragged on for years while Su35 becomes more obsolete by the day, only to be 'agreed' now with oil price near its lowest, Russian GDP in a dump, facing its greatest geo-strategic threat in decades.
Saying a main reason of any sale as throwing a bone to Russia is very logical. It is good for China to have Russia keeping Nato occupied in Europe.
Critics are already giving Su35 as much respect as it deserve.
 

jobjed

Captain
Wait, how could J-11D get minimum gain in capability while J-20 get benefit from 117S installed? What make the two different in getting 117S Engine?

J-20 is more valuable than a J-11D. The higher thrust of the 117 gives whichever aircraft it's installed on a higher survivability. Since J-20 is a more important asset, 117 will more likely be given to it instead of J-11D.
 

Blitzo

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Wait, how could J-11D get minimum gain in capability while J-20 get benefit from 117S installed? What make the two different in getting 117S Engine?

I suppose it depends on whether J-11D is actually powered by uprated WS-10s. If it is, then the gain it could derive from being powered by 117S is probably not very great, and J-20 (which is currently powered by Al-31s) may benefit from 117S.
But at the same time, it's possible that J-20 might simply enter service with uprated WS-10s as interim engines rather than 117S, in which case 117S may not be used aboard indigenous aircraft.
 

SinoSoldier

Colonel
They already have the ability to make flankers and the advantage of Su-35 over flankers is the engine and the avionics.

I don't think the Su-35's avionics would be something the Chinese would fawn over. Multiple institutions in China have been developing numerous AESA radars that should provide Chinese Flankers the adequate situational awareness they need. In fact, if corporate documents are to be believed, the J-16's 1760-module AESA radar should outperform the Irbis-E in both range and resolution. The J-11D is also expected to be fitted with an AESA radar, as are the J-11B and J-15.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Eventhough the aircraft will have a 'made in Russia ' stamp, that doesn't mean there will be zero ToT. Those things are mutually exclusive.
I like to believe there will be some ToT involved as part of the acquitsiion contract.
Not to blow wind up my own skirt, but all my predictions dating back couple weeks have been right and I intend to keep it that way.
 
... Two billion dollar is no small amount but it's somthing China can afford.

...
you might want to consider it's two billion Rubles, not US$, about 66 times less! LOL
the article which Miragedriver this Wednesday reposted from DefenceTalk

Russia, China agree on $2bn deal for 24 Su-35 warplanes

MOSCOW: Russia and China have agreed on the sale of 24 advanced Sukhoi Su-35 fighters to Beijing, the Russian state holding Rostec said on Thursday.

The deal – which military experts say could be worth more than $2 billion – represents the first time a foreign state has purchased the Su-35.

A representative of Rostec, speaking to AFP, confirmed a deal had been reached but declined to give details on the price and timeframe for delivery.

Moscow and Beijing have reportedly been in talks about the sale for three years, with Chinese media reporting in 2013 that the country had agreed to their purchase.

Vasily Kashin, an expert at the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, a leading military and security think tank in Moscow, estimated the deal to be worth more than $2 billion.

“It was the expected amount,” he told AFP.

Moscow and Beijing, which were rivals during the Cold War, have strengthened cooperation in recent years to counterbalance perceived dominance by the United States.

The sale will also help fill Russia’s state coffers as its economy has been reeling from low oil prices and Western sanctions imposed over the Ukraine crisis.

Rostec head Sergei Chemezov told Russian media earlier this month that Moscow was in talks with the United Arab Emirates for the sale of Su-35s.

On its website, Sukhoi describes the Su-35 as an upgraded “fourth-generation” multirole fighter, which first flew as an experimental model in 2007, capable of delivering eight tonnes of ordnance.

Link:
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Back to bottling my Grenache

doesn't specify the currency LOL and this Sunday
LOL I accidentally noticed

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which describes cheering by the Governor of Khabarovsk Krai (the region where the Su-35s are produced) at the contract, which is mostly desbelieved here but that's not the point, who said the price should be in between 83 and 85 million Rubles thus amounting to about two billion Rubles for those 24 airplanes (or no-airplanes :) so, looking at google

1 Russian ruble =
0.015464 U.S. dollars

and taking the average of what this individual said (to a ТАСС correspondent, November 19):
0.015464*80 which is 1.2371 (about one point two) million dollars ... production cost?
(I just reacted to kwaigonegin's "estimate" quoted inside of my post, visible if you clicked on it :)
 

Quickie

Colonel
you might want to consider it's two billion Rubles, not US$, about 66 times less! LOL
the article which Miragedriver this Wednesday reposted from DefenceTalk



doesn't specify the currency LOL and this Sunday

(I just reacted to kwaigonegin's "estimate" quoted inside of my post, visible if you clicked on it :)
Wait a minute, you are saying: it can't be 2 million Rubles per aircraft, so the deal must be on something else other than an aircraft?
 
Wait a minute, you are saying: it can't be 2 million Rubles per aircraft, so the deal must be on something else other than an aircraft?
I'm saying
Sunday at 1:40 PM
LOL I accidentally noticed

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


which describes cheering by the Governor of Khabarovsk Krai (the region where the Su-35s are produced) at the contract, which is mostly desbelieved here but that's not the point, who said the price should be in between 83 and 85 million Rubles thus amounting to about two billion Rubles for those 24 airplanes (or no-airplanes :) so, looking at google

1 Russian ruble =
0.015464 U.S. dollars

and taking the average of what this individual said (to a ТАСС correspondent, November 19):
0.015464*80 which is 1.2371 (about one point two) million dollars ... production cost?
 
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