Chinese purchase of Su-35

plawolf

Lieutenant General
My question is that if the Chinese chose to retrofit the Su-35s with their own avionics, sensors, electronics, and weapons, why are they paying ~$80 million a pop, which is far more than if they had bought the entire Su-35 package in the first place?

Well, the deal is essentially a gift for Russia (and/or paying Russia for other services rendered, like, I don't know, maybe putting Uighur terrorists high on their target list for explosive liquidation? ;) )

Putting in Chinese radar and avionics would be to ensure the Su35s are as useful for the PLAAF as possible so that they can work seamlessly with other Chinese assets and to avoid China having to buy a load of weapons nothing else in their inventory can use.

Secondly, the report suggests that the Su-35 has become a point of "collaboration" between the two countries. Could it be that both China and Russia are jointly developing an upgraded variant, this time with Chinese electronics coupled with a Russian 117S engine? That would be the ultimate air superiority fighter.

Possible, but unlikely. The two are undoubtedly collaborating in installing and integrating Chinese radar and avionics on the Su35 airframe (its far easier and cheaper to just build the planes with the Chinese systems installed from the start), but I seriously doubt they would offer this package to anyone else.

The Russians wouldn't really be interested, as it would pose the same logistical headaches for them as Su35 with Russian radar and avionics would have for China, and since a huge part of any big ticket arms sales, like fighter jets, is actually the weapons and support packages, the Russians would want that piece of the pie for themselves rather than gift that to China.

In addition, you have Russian pride and reputation to think about.

International arms sales matter far more to Russia than China.

For the Russians to use Chinese radars and avionics on their new Su35s would be as good as them admitting that the Chinese systems are superior. That would massively harm the future sales prospects of Russian arms, and quite simply, they will never allow that.

Even if Russia one day buys major weapons systems from China, like warships and/or drones/planes etc, they will probably insist on the same deal as they are giving China with the Su35 and want to install their own key systems.

This deal may set an interesting precedent for future Sino-Russian arms deals, but that would be an exclusive relationship between the two that is not normally offered to anyone else interested in buying arms from them.
 

montyp165

Junior Member
Well, the deal is essentially a gift for Russia (and/or paying Russia for other services rendered, like, I don't know, maybe putting Uighur terrorists high on their target list for explosive liquidation? ;) )

Putting in Chinese radar and avionics would be to ensure the Su35s are as useful for the PLAAF as possible so that they can work seamlessly with other Chinese assets and to avoid China having to buy a load of weapons nothing else in their inventory can use.



Possible, but unlikely. The two are undoubtedly collaborating in installing and integrating Chinese radar and avionics on the Su35 airframe (its far easier and cheaper to just build the planes with the Chinese systems installed from the start), but I seriously doubt they would offer this package to anyone else.

The Russians wouldn't really be interested, as it would pose the same logistical headaches for them as Su35 with Russian radar and avionics would have for China, and since a huge part of any big ticket arms sales, like fighter jets, is actually the weapons and support packages, the Russians would want that piece of the pie for themselves rather than gift that to China.

In addition, you have Russian pride and reputation to think about.

International arms sales matter far more to Russia than China.

For the Russians to use Chinese radars and avionics on their new Su35s would be as good as them admitting that the Chinese systems are superior. That would massively harm the future sales prospects of Russian arms, and quite simply, they will never allow that.

Even if Russia one day buys major weapons systems from China, like warships and/or drones/planes etc, they will probably insist on the same deal as they are giving China with the Su35 and want to install their own key systems.

This deal may set an interesting precedent for future Sino-Russian arms deals, but that would be an exclusive relationship between the two that is not normally offered to anyone else interested in buying arms from them.

My thinking is that Russia and China would be very interested in developing a common set of interfaces for military hardware in the long run, this makes supply and maintenance a much easier thing especially for operations like in Syria for example.
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
My question is that if the Chinese chose to retrofit the Su-35s with their own avionics, sensors, electronics, and weapons, why are the paying ~$80 million a pop, which is far more than if they had bought the entire Su-35 package in the first place?
..................
Well, the answer is pretty simple isn't it ? Because guess where the $80mil figure came from. That's right, another Russian source. :)
You guys have been led by the nose on a wild goose chase for years by Russian 'sources', it's amazing many still simply take their words for it.
 
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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
For the Russians to use Chinese radars and avionics on their new Su35s would be as good as them admitting that the Chinese systems are superior. That would massively harm the future sales prospects of Russian arms, and quite simply, they will never allow that.

.

Russia is weak at semiconductor, and they are definitely interested at GaAs or GaN transceiver chips from China. The gonna do their own system design for radar but the components they are planning to source from China.
They already said publicly they want source components from China for their space system,
Russian systems before used alot of Intel/AMD and Ti DSP but given the rift of US and Russia, Russia will to source MIPS processors from China like the Loongson used in Beidu.

So, Russia needs China's help in military in the future.
SU35, S400 are already in the bag, the next item from Russia to China will be nuke powered subs like Akula or even Yasen.
 
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b787

Captain
anything in Chinese internet news that quote Russian news are basically worthless unless you can find the original Russian news.
my respect to you, i read the beginning of this thread and you were the only one with a cool unbiased view, in fact you said that the deal was very likely true in 2012
 

b787

Captain
As long as IL-476 can get into production earlier than Y-20 and have production slot for PLAAF, China will order it.

As for Su-35, I think China probably has inquired about it in low quantity, because they want to get 117S engine, but Russia would not sell in small quantity. So, you continuously have these news coming out.
that was correct
 

b787

Captain
Perhaps in SAM tech (S-400/500), but no in hell in radar tech, China is far ahead of Russia now
the Irbis is not the most advanced radar Russia has it is only very cheap and very powerful, its oscillator is powerful enough to out range most radars in the world, very likely the longest range in any fighter now

this is one of the most advanced AESA radar in the world, it is the FGA-35 for MiG-35
QlK6WY0.jpg


very advanced Russian T/R modules
qngZZig.jpg


Russia’s leading radar design house Phazotron-NIIR. General Designer Yuri Guskov told Russia & CIS Observer about the corporation’s on-going Indian contracts and new development programs.
How expensive will the new radar be to buy and operate?

— Designers of 3D AESA radars aim to bring the price down to a level comparable to that of a radar with a traditional mechanically-scanned array. So far AESA radars remain about 30% more expensive; our goal is to further narrow this gap to 8-10%. The bulk of the price is the cost of monolithic integrated circuits which are used in the TRMs. If purchased abroad they hike the price of a single TRM to between $800 and $1,000. We are planning to launch domestic production of such circuits, thus reducing the TRM price to about $400 to $500 apiece.

I am also getting better at convincing people that an AESA is cheaper to operate than a mechanically-scanned array because it is thrice as reliable. You require fewer spare parts so your aircraft grow more mobile because you no longer need to move large SPTA stocks when relocating from one air base to another. The service life of the TRMs is comparable to that of the airframe. Our goal is to bring the reliability of all radar components up to the same high level.
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