Z-20 (all variants) thread

ladioussupp

Junior Member
That is kind of strange, given they were able to transport S-70s via modified Y-8s all those decades ago. I find it hard to imagine Il-76 cannot carry an only marginally larger Z-20, or that Z-20 is too large for a train...

Hmmm

According to this page, a slightly modified Y-8A is used to carry S-70 to Lhasa once. But it took two days to assemble the S-70. PLA decided to call it off.

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Il-76 cargo compartment 20 m long by 3.4 m wide by 3.4 m tall. And a comparable S-70 is 5.33m. So S-70 or Z-20 is too high to put into the cargo bay even the rotor head and landing gears are removed.

Besides, a normal container is no taller than 3 meter. Due to the same height constraint, Z-20 cannot be put on a train.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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According to this page, a slightly modified Y-8A is used to carry S-70 to Lhasa once. But it took two days to assemble the S-70. PLA decided to call it off.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Il-76 cargo compartment 20 m long by 3.4 m wide by 3.4 m tall. And a comparable S-70 is 5.33m. So S-70 or Z-20 is too high to put into the cargo bay even the rotor head and landing gears are removed.

That could be it -- though I'm not sure how high an S-70 is once its landing gear, main rotor, and tail rotor are all removed.

Besides, a normal container is no taller than 3 meter. Due to the same height constraint, Z-20 cannot be put on a train.

I was envisioning Z-20 being put atop a train carriage platform rather than within a container, in the same way that AFVs and tanks are carried on trains, therefore it won't be limited by dimensions of a container.


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Something else to ask is why they didn't just fly the aircraft to the testing site instead. They seemed to be able to test Z-18 in high altitude conditions with no need for transport via trucks to get there (that we know of).
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The method of transportation was probably down to costs, security and other practical considerations.

Sure they could fly it in the hold of a transport, or fly it there under its own power, but both options would cost a fair amount of money.

They probably decided to use a truck because it was the cheapest (and potentially easiest to get to the test centre, as I don't think it would have a runway able to take heavy transports aircraft or its own rail connection) way to get the Z20 to the test centre.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Transportation by train would have its inherent issues like tunnels and overhead gantries. But do we know where it was being dispatched to? It could well be just 20 miles away. But if it was 1000 miles, then they would try to squeeze into an air freighter.
 

delft

Brigadier
I'm sure it is a bit larger, but by such an extent that it can't be carried by an Il-76 or on a train even? hmmm.
Indeed making something a little bit larger so that a lot of thing become impossible that would be possible by keeping the size down a little sounds like a mistake. I doubt that such a mistake has been made.
The part that would be too large in this case would be the tail. But it is entirely possible to adapt the design and make the tail demountable.
I think this helicopter can be transported by rail and by air.
 

MwRYum

Major
I am not sure if it's really secrecy Jay. I think it's more of fans not being as interested. I mean J20 is sexy Sleek and the wet Dream of China Fanboi come true. J31 the same.
Z20 by contrast is more or less every thing the Fanboi don't want. a clone, a visible knockoff. I mean I have gone to bat for it because It is a very practical machine and has some unique ideas but at it's core it is a Chinese Take on a proven machine, The S70 Blackhawk sold to the PRC in the 1980's is it's obvious parent, Its not revolutionary its not "China blazing new trails" it's a proven practical piece of the mundane. A Utility machine.
Where Z10 and Z19 take great strides and Show the Chinese makers can walk there own path and build a aggressive machine.
Z20 is not that, it's a utility machine.
My bet on the secrecy is more a lack of interest combined with the PLAAF likely testing it in the remote reaches of Chinese territory not because of want of seclusion but likely as the PLA trials it in the extreme environs of the Tibetan Hindu kush, and the dry sands of the Gobi.
All that, if only the Z-20 can be on-par with UH-60 on all performance, and can be produced in significant quantities within a certain timeframe, only then we can talk about true revolution is at hand - at this time, the PLA still thinks primary "with legs", only recently moving towards "with wheels".

Something like the "Chinese-HMMWV" got a 1-hours TV special, for starters...and even if serial production starts next year, the first Z-20 equipped regiment will only be just got certified for operating at full capacity, too early to take part in 2019 National Day parade.

On top of all that, the Chinese authority has so far keeping a very tight lid on Z-20, enough to say it ain't defunct but not enough to say for absolute certainty about anything...I believe only with HD pics, and even that with a pint of salt to go with.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
On top of all that, the Chinese authority has so far keeping a very tight lid on Z-20, enough to say it ain't defunct but not enough to say for absolute certainty about anything.
Consider they have alot on there budgetary plate. All the new vehicles and equipment spread across there Army, Navy, Air Force, 2nd Art and Marines that has to be eating resources and budget. The PRC military budget has limitations, Heck the US is struggling to fund it's projects and it's budget is monstrous. So Some projects have to be kept back burner and I imagine that utility helicopter vs 5th gen fighter will have the politicians making an easy choice.
 

MwRYum

Major
Consider they have alot on there budgetary plate. All the new vehicles and equipment spread across there Army, Navy, Air Force, 2nd Art and Marines that has to be eating resources and budget. The PRC military budget has limitations, Heck the US is struggling to fund it's projects and it's budget is monstrous. So Some projects have to be kept back burner and I imagine that utility helicopter vs 5th gen fighter will have the politicians making an easy choice.
You're talking about budgeting priority but I'm talking about the level of censorship that clamps down onto everything Z-20, which surpress even the stealth fighter projects. Not usual to say it mildly.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
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You're talking about budgeting priority but I'm talking about the level of censorship that clamps down onto everything Z-20, which surpress even the stealth fighter projects. Not usual to say it mildly.

I think you are exaggerating the secrecy surrounding Z-20 a little. We have similarly few photos of certain Z-18 variants as well, which we know are all under testing.

Trying to attribute the lack of photos of Z-20 to a single factor is probably too much. It is likely a combination of standard Chinese military opsec, combined with a relative lower degree of Chinese military watcher interest, combined with more remote testing of Z-20 where it may be harder to photograph as well, compared to say, J-20s at CAC.
 
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