Chinese Economics Thread

B.I.B. said:

It's not as.easy as that. Experience from North Dakota where the water used for fracking has a high salinity, freshwater is required to flush out the well from time to time to prevent the buildup of salt.

Also minerals in the rocks of the oil reservoir may clash with.the minerals found in the saline water

Click to expand...

Yeah but water is water whether it's salty or not. Desalination technology are getting better and better every year.

B.I.B. said:

It's not as.easy as that. Experience from North Dakota where the water used for fracking has a high salinity, freshwater is required to flush out the well from time to time to prevent the buildup of salt.

Also minerals in the rocks of the oil reservoir may clash with.the minerals found in the saline water

Click to expand...

I believe it is "salt" water but the salinity wouldn't be as high as sea water (3.5%), perhaps less than 1%, less than salinity of Caspian sea (1.2%)

Equation said:

Yeah but water is water whether it's salty or not. Desalination technology are getting better and better every year.

Click to expand...

Excellent point, however in the.full.article Li did not forget.any immediate use of the water,perhaps the fear of releasing to much carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
Waste water from fracking is.full of dangerous.contaminants so one would have to be.careful where they dump it.because.Xinjiang's seasonal rivers and.lakes appear.at inconsistent locations.

antiterror13 said:

I believe it is "salt" water but the salinity wouldn't be as high as sea water (3.5%), perhaps less than 1%, less than salinity of Caspian sea (1.2%)

Click to expand...

I can only.refer to the problems encountered by oil companies using the fracking.process in north Dakota.

Yes, water is water. The cost would be more shipping it in from some place else and I'm not talking just monetarily. It's not like all five to ten Great Lakes worth of water is going to be used. People act like there's this giant bubble of carbon and if someone pokes a hole anywhere around the bubble, all of the carbon escapes. If that were the case the bubble was already burst. What scientists are doing is they're looking for the "missing carbon." All the terrains of the world absorb carbon. Each terrain holds a different amount of carbon on their own. When they add it all together their estimates conclude that there's a certain amount of carbon that cannot be accounted for. That's what they're looking for. It's not all in this one desert or in any one place on Earth. The find suggest some of this missing carbon is found underneath large deserts around the world. So tapping into that water in this one desert isn't going to end the world. And since it's not potable for human consumption and farm use and given the amount of water they're estimating is there, it would be negligible using it for fracking.

shen said:

just to clarify the behavior that's illegal in China is "naked short selling" is also illegal in the US and most jurisdictions in the world. normal short selling as a hedge for one's portfolio is perfectly legal in China.

Click to expand...

What the heck are you talking about? Do you know the difference between "naked short selling" and "normal short selling"? Explain in precise terms.

Also, I never even said short selling in China is not allowed. I said such activities are getting investigated by the Chinese regulators. They think by stop trading of 2/3 of the stocks that will stop stock prices from dropping. And Chinese stocks are more restrictive than US market. In China, you cannot close your opened position from that day, so in effect, you have to do unidrection trading every day.

AssassinsMace said:

Yes, water is water. The cost would be more shipping it in from some place else and I'm not talking just monetarily. It's not like all five to ten Great Lakes worth of water is going to be used. People act like there's this giant bubble of carbon and if someone pokes a hole anywhere around the bubble, all of the carbon escapes. If that were the case the bubble was already burst. What scientists are doing is they're looking for the "missing carbon." All the terrains of the world absorb carbon. Each terrain holds a different amount of carbon on their own. When they add it all together their estimates conclude that there's a certain amount of carbon that cannot be accounted for. That's what they're looking for. It's not all in this one desert or in any one place on Earth. The find suggest some of this missing carbon is found underneath large deserts around the world. So tapping into that water in this one desert isn't going to end the world. And since it's not potable for human consumption and farm use and given the amount of water they're estimating is there, it would be negligible using it for fracking.

Click to expand...

If the water was desalinated as Equation suggested and refined further, it would then be fit for human consumption and in this I was thinking of a project bigger than San Diegos Carlsbad project. The result could see a oilfield many times the size of North Dakota's Bakkens field , with associated industries we may even see the creation of a new city housing tens of thousands.
Such a development does not come without its problems and i think North Dakotas Bakken area may provide a useful guide of problems encountered.



So while the water first pumped down the hole to crack rock formations and release the underground oil and natural gas typically totals 2 million gallons (7.5 million liters) per well, each of North Dakota's wells is daily drinking down an average of more than 600 gallons (2,300 liters) in maintenance water, according to recent calculations by North Dakota's Department of Mineral Resources (

.........
Why do North Dakota's wells have such a difficult-to-quench thirst? The naturally high salinity of the Bakken play's groundwater is the reason, according to Suggs.

"As they're producing the oil, they're also bringing up that water," Suggs said. "The salt precipitates in the well bore. It can restrict the flow of oil, and cause the pumping equipment to have problems as well."

That salt has to be flushed out by pumping fresh water down into the well bore, and then sucking it back up through the same tubing normally used for oil. "The salt basically dissolves in the water, .............

In 2012, the Bakken oil industry used about 5.5 billion gallons (209 billion liters) of water—more than the amount used by the 110,000 inhabitants of Fargo, the state's biggest city. When the Bakken is fully developed in the next 10 to 20 years, the oil and gas play's 40,000 to 45,000 wells may need to consume roughly double that amount—as much as 10.2 billion gallons per year (28 million gallons each day)-in maintenance water to keep the oil flowing,
.........

There was an article out yesterday about how Obama wants to implement a 5-year plan like how China does it with these long term economic goals they set. Of course you read the comments and any association with China is a negative. There was criticism about how China doesn't have to deal women rights. Yeah that's correct. China doesn't have to deal with it because China is a place where most of the richest self-made women in the world live and there's routinely different Chinese women who can claim the title of world's richest self-made woman.

I think we're getting into dangerous sexist and cultural territory here.

Fact is, China is well documented to have more self made billionaires than any other country. However we do not know how many military officers in China who are female and how many are male compared to other countries, nor how many hold various kind of usual male dominated occupations.

More importantly we don't know if there are other confounding factors which may cause women to prefer say, corporate occupations rather than government.

This isn't a pissing contest over whose women are more liberated.