PLAN SCS Bases/Islands/Vessels (Not a Strategy Page)

Jeff Head said:

I the end...I believe the US will continue with its FON as it sees it...and China will continue with its reclamation and development as it desires.

Short of trying to militarily stop one another, there is really not a lot either side can do about it.

I do not believe either side is going to start shooting to force its interpretation of either of those issues on the other.

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That perfectly illustrates that there is no advantage to the Philippine state in playing along with US. There is presumably ( monetary ) advantage for Philippine politicians to do so.

delft said:

That perfectly illustrates that there is no advantage to the Philippine state in playing along with US. There is presumably ( monetary ) advantage for Philippine politicians to do so.

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That is your opinion delft...particularly the part about the corruption and under the table monetary pay-offs.

Please don't make such accusations without any evidence whatsoever of it being the case. That would be like someone saying that the President of Pakistan is on the take from China...without a shred of evidence confirming the same.

The fact is, the US has close relations with the Philippines. There are all kinds of reasons for the Philippines to want to remain close.

Sure, the Philippines do not have the resource to do what, say, Vietnam is doing in terms of bolstering their own position in the SCS...but they do hope the US will be of some help, and the US is transferring equipment to the Philippines which is better than what the Philippines would otherwise have.

Anyhow...let's not get into such discussion regarding unfounded accusations on SD.

Jeff Head said:

That is your opinion delft...particularly the part about the corruption and under the table monetary pay-offs.

Please don't make such accusations without any evidence whatsoever of it being the case. That would be like someone saying that the President of Pakistan is on the take from China...without a shred of evidence confirming the same.

The fact is, the US has close relations with the Philippines. There are all kinds of reasons for the Philippines to want to remain close.

Sure, the Philippines do not have the resource to do what, say, Vietnam is doing in terms of bolstering their own position in the SCS...but they do hope the US will be of some help, and the US is transferring equipment to the Philippines which is better than what the Philippines would otherwise have.

Anyhow...let's not get into such discussion regarding unfounded accusations on SD.

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I question the wisdom of US providing Manila with symbolic assistance that makes no difference in its ability to influence China's strategic gambit, while at the same time upsetting Beijing for little or no gain. If Obama is in for a penny, then he should be in for a pound, so either lead, follow, or get out of the way.

Blackstone said:

I question the wisdom of US providing Manila with symbolic assistance that makes no difference in its ability to influence China's strategic gambit, while at the same time upsetting Beijing for little or no gain. If Obama is in for a penny, then he should be in for a pound, so either lead, follow, or get out of the way.

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I do not think that the two old Hamilton class cutters will either upset China, or be of any use in the larger picture in the SCS if things ever got serious.

However, they are very valuable to the Philippines in their other EEZ, fisheries, anti-piracy, maritime patrols, and basic naval capabilities.

These nations do in fact have legitimate activities and concerns outside of direct involvement with China in the SCS.

Chinese position has always been joint development in the SCS. I think the main point of contention is the size of the pie pieces. What Phillipines is doing is not helping their case

vincent said:

Chinese position has always been joint development in the SCS. I think the main point of contention is the size of the pie pieces. What Phillipines is doing is not helping their case

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According to Robert D. Kaplin, author of Revenge of Geography, Filipinos believe the gas and old fields in the disputed territory will make them rich, and they're not interested in sharing with anyone else. That's the main reason for their inflexibility.

Jeff Head said:

That is your opinion delft...particularly the part about the corruption and under the table monetary pay-offs.

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I have no other evidence about the Philippines beside the fact that it has the reputation of being one of the most corrupt countries in the World. However I read on the website of Paul Craig Roberts, , a few months ago that the supervisor of his PhD work told him, this was in the '70's, that the US used money to let allies do what they wanted them to. When Roberts supposed he meant aid money he said no, he meant paying the politicians.
Roberts went on to become a junior treasury minister under President Reagan.
I have unfortunately no time to find back this article today.

delft said:

That perfectly illustrates that there is no advantage to the Philippine state in playing along with US. There is presumably ( monetary ) advantage for Philippine politicians to do so.

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I don't believe it is the case and the US govt has implemented "no bribery" policy for long time.

It really puzzles me for long time why the Philippine govt under Noynoy has been so offensive toward China, and it was quite friendly under previous administrations, including his Mum's administration. I believe it is a mistake politically and geo-strategically.

Jeff Head said:

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Sure, the Philippines do not have the resource to do what, say, Vietnam is doing in terms of bolstering their own position in the SCS...

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Philippines is actually much richer than Vietnam in both absolute and per capita terms. So one has to wonder why they can't come up with the same resources.