Chinese UAV/UCAV development

Totoro · May 28, 2015

Only way ws-11 is possible is if it were somehow two engined and not really much heavier than global hawk. I do guess its possible there are two engines under that hood though, and the shroud isnt really circular viewed from the front.

Deino · May 28, 2015

Skywatcher said:
There'll be an Eastern Arsenal update, of course.

It's funny that we get pictures of the Divine Eagle before the RQ-180, lol.

And here it is !

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Deino

supercat · May 28, 2015

I'm a litter bit disappointed that the two huge vertical stabilizers are not canted.

Totoro · May 28, 2015

At the altitudes the uav will be performing, relative to other planes, and considering little to no banking maneuvers the uav will be doing - canted tails
arent necessary.

Deino · May 28, 2015

I have two questions ....

1. regarding its size it roughly correlates - maybe not span-wise - with the original Soaring Dragon ... were they maybe once competing designs and in the end ended up in different requirements and the original Soaring Dragon being redesigned and made a bit smaller ?

2. A few months ago there were reports about an already accomplished maiden flight (if I'm not mistaken ...

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). However I can't imagine that this huge beast build at SAC was completely overseen or a maiden flight missed by any observer. So am I correct to assume that these reports were simply wrong ?

Thanks in advance,
Deino

AssassinsMace · May 28, 2015

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a design change down the line like the Soaring Dragon went through. That picture with the watermark... it looks like there's guy walking ahead up front. If that is a person, the Divine Eagle is smaller than I imagined. It doesn't seem that much bigger than the first Soaring Dragon prototype.

Totoro · May 28, 2015

Deino said:
I have two questions ....

I would say: quite possibly on the first question and almost definitely on the second one.

But on another note: do we have some hard figures on some of the bigger uavs?
Ch-4 and Wing Loong are two different designs, right? But they're both in similar weight class - little over a ton MTOW, powered both by piston engine?
Then there's BZK-005 of similar weight class and propulsion?

Then Soaring dragon seems to be a 7-8 ton (mtow) aircraft?

Sky Wing is something akin to US Reaper, weight class wise, but powered by a ws-11 turbofan?

Then we have the Sharp Sword jet powered demonstrator, probably a 10-ish ton aircraft.

And now, most recently, the Divine eagle. Potentially a 15+ ton aircraft.

Have I omitted some of the larger UAVs?

Are they all in PLA service or poised for PLA service? Am not sure about Wing Loong, maybe it's just for export? Also, Sharp Sword may be primarely a demonstrator? And it's tech may then influence future combat uav designs?

Skywatcher · May 28, 2015

Deino said:
I have two questions ....

-

2. A few months ago there were reports about an already accomplished maiden flight (if I'm not mistaken ...
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). However I can't imagine that this huge beast build at SAC was completely overseen or a maiden flight missed by any observer. So am I correct to assume that these reports were simply wrong ?

Thanks in advance,
Deino

It was probably censorship at work there, or they were flying the first flight out at a more remote field for whatever reason (safety and secrecy?)

delft · May 28, 2015

Bltizo said:
The original proposal seemed to desire a 360 degree conformal arrangement of an X band and UHF band radar... even assuming they kept at least one set of those, I doubt it would have been feasible to place such an arrangement on a global hawk or xianglong type of main fuselage. Lack of volume being a big issue.
One solution is to have a very flat, solid fuselage like B-2... that will provide more than enough internal volume for a radar and its back end equpiment I imagine that's a lot of extra weight to support.
So the compromise is a double hull where there's enough volume between the two hulls to support the radars, with a bridging wing connecting the two hulls also providing additional lift, but with a lot of empty space between the two hulls compared to say a flying wing, which decreases weight.

This configuration has been proposed some thirty or forty years ago for passenger aircraft in order to increase wing span, decrease induced drag, without increasing wing weight. A large wing span is of course also of great value to such a high flying UAV.

Yeah, that's what huitong is claiming but personally I think it's a bit light for a plane of this size.
[/QUOTE}
It might be very lightly build and need a small engine.

Blitzo · May 28, 2015

I'm surprised no one else here has brought up the proposed USAF Sensorcraft ... It was very much similar in role to what the original proposal of Divine Eagle looked like, from SAR, GMTI, AMTI and all, even with X band and meter band radar. Of course Sensorcraft for USAF hasn't gone anywhere compared to Divine Eagle at least making it to prototype stage likely retaining the majority of its original intended capabilities... but the similarities in original intended capability, and their stealthy design is hard to miss. It's likely PLAAF reached the same conclusion simply based on need rather than blindly copying a USAF concept, but it is still worth noting... and could provide indications towards the kind of ultimate capabilities and endurance PLA are seeking out of this bird of theirs

They had also come out with a number of funky configurations for Sensorcraft... some of which were similar to the original pursued designs of Divine Eagle and some of which share some similarities to the current twin hull Divine Eagle

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SensorCraft

The USAF has learnt, through sometimes bitter experience, that however good a design looks on paper, it’s only by actually building, flying and thoroughly testing a design that its true capability can be determined. In recent years this practice has been used to good effect for a number of manned aircraft was also used in the development of the Dark Star and Global Hawk UAVs. Even though the Global Hawk has just begun full-scale production and entry into service and the Dark Star has evolved into a larger ‘black’ UAV, the Air Vehicles Directorate element of the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio has already begun developing the concept of a next-generation advanced UAV to replace these vehicles.

Throughout the remainder of this decade the AFRL will investigate a wide variety of the latest sensors, communications links, air vehicle components and propulsion systems and consider how they can all be incorporated into the concept of a next generation long-range high-altitude ISR UAV – known as SensorCraft. When and if it finally enters service, this cutting-edge vehicle will carry an integrated mix of radar, cameras, ELINT equipment and data links, whilst orbiting a battlefield at 65,000ft for between 60-80hrs at around 350kts, gathering intelligence and passing it onto supporting elements in near real-time.

For the design of SensorCraft the traditional design process has been reversed. In previous UAV designs the vehicle has been constructed and then the sensors have been incorporated into the available space. In SensorCraft the optimum mix of sensors will be determined and then the vehicle design moulded around the systems, with sensor apertures embedded in the fuselage as necessary. This unusual approach to UAV design has already resulted in some radical proposals; in particular, a diamond shaped structure that would facilitate sensor coverage. Another proposal is for a flying-wing design, not dissimilar to the B-2 Spirit stealth bomber along with a large U-2 style design with a 200ft wing-span and an endurance of 60hrs.

Particular attention is being paid to the sensors planned for this UAV and they will probably operate on a wide variety of frequencies, such as VHF to allow foliage penetration and X-band for improved image resolution, as well as hyperspectral and passive sensors. There’s even as possibility that the vehicle will be able to operate in a bistatic mode, allowing for passive operations, and be equipped with active countermeasures. As technology advances, this next generation Global Hawk could well have a combined Air and Ground Moving Target Indicator (AGMTI) built into an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) giving it the air-to-air capability of an E-3D AWACS together with the air-to-ground function of the E-8 JSTARS.

The SensorCraft concept will allow the ARFL to establish how evolving technologies develop and enable the programme to determine if they can eventually mature into a viable UAV. The ARFL aim to launch an aircraft programme around 2010 and the eventual system could enter service around 2020.

Chinese UAV/UCAV development

Totoro

Major

Deino

Lieutenant General

supercat

Major

Totoro

Major

Deino

Lieutenant General

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

Totoro

Major

Skywatcher

Captain

delft

Brigadier

Blitzo

Lieutenant General