ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

janjak desalin

Junior Member
Iraqis rename offensive in Sunni area; original title honored Shiite
Iraqis rebrand offensive to retake Sunni heartland after original title honoring revered Shiite stirs discord
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This is a first; an offensive that isn't intended to offend!
Iraq opens operation to choke off Islamic State lifelines in Ramadi
Iraqi forces regained ground from Islamic State militants in western Iraq, advancing toward the city of Ramadi one week after it fell to the insurgents. (Reuters)

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janjak desalin

Junior Member
From the early details of this operation, as reported in this article, it seems the Iraqi forces are using the same, failed, frontal assault strategy. Cut them off and assault them from the rear and simply hold the front! Leave them no exit path and prevent them from slipping away to fight another day. Unless the Iraqis, and Syrians, take, and hold, the border crossings at Al Qa'im and Rabiaa, ISIS/ISIL won't be cut-off at all!
If there were to be any ambitious, large-scale, joint operations, their objectives should be to take and hold these two border crossings. This would effectively divide ISIS/ISIL in Syria and ISIS/ISIL in Iraq into two separate fighting forces. This might allow the Iraqi and Syrian forces to more effectively combat a divided force/logistical base.
Unfortunately, as these locations are on the peripheries of their metropoles, even in 'peace-time', they were far removed from the immediate consciousness and daily mediation of the central state authorities. Should this orientation persist in the current state of war, the current state of war will persist until this orientation adapts to the realities on the ground.
 

Ultra

Junior Member
If Iraqi government is serious about fighting this ISIL/ISIS threat, shouldn't they be buying few dozens of gunships? Right now it looks like they only have FOUR Mi-35 (improved version of Mi-24)! Its no wonder they are getting beaten left and right.

I know they requested for the sale of 24 AH-64s in April 2013; and in January 2014 the sale, including the helicopters, associated parts, maintenance, and training, was cleared by Congress. However, the proposal was not accepted by the Iraqi government and expired in August 2014.

So now they are suffering for it. And even if that sale went through it would be years before they can get those Apache, and even more years before they can train up the pilots to use them, by then it would probably be too late.

And I think Apache is a bad choice to begin with; what they need is to buy second-hand ready-to-use Super Cobra. Compare to Super Cobra, the Apache is more expensive ($65M~$35M) compare to the Super Cobra ($10.7M); Apache also requires extensive pilot training to use its IHADSS HMD system. By comparison Super Cobra doesn't have such requirement and thus the pilot training would be much much shorter.

I think with squadrons of Super Cobras escorting the ground force providing CAS, ISIS/ISIL will just melt away!
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
If Iraqi government is serious about fighting this ISIL/ISIS threat, shouldn't they be buying few dozens of gunships? Right now it looks like they only have FOUR Mi-35 (improved version of Mi-24)! Its no wonder they are getting beaten left and right.

I know they requested for the sale of 24 AH-64s in April 2013; and in January 2014 the sale, including the helicopters, associated parts, maintenance, and training, was cleared by Congress. However, the proposal was not accepted by the Iraqi government and expired in August 2014.

So now they are suffering for it. And even if that sale went through it would be years before they can get those Apache, and even more years before they can train up the pilots to use them, by then it would probably be too late.

And I think Apache is a bad choice to begin with; what they need is to buy second-hand ready-to-use Super Cobra. Compare to Super Cobra, the Apache is more expensive ($65M~$35M) compare to the Super Cobra ($10.7M); Apache also requires extensive pilot training to use its IHADSS HMD system. By comparison Super Cobra doesn't have such requirement and thus the pilot training would be much much shorter.

I think with squadrons of Super Cobras escorting the ground force providing CAS, ISIS/ISIL will just melt away!

It doesn't matter what kind or how many close air support the Iraqi forces has in their arsenal if they don't have an effective infantry forces on the ground to not only fight and hold ground but to give vital intel about enemy positions and such to the fire support groups.
 

ShahryarHedayat

Junior Member
There were two separate poles conducted by Al Jazirah governmental TV channel of Qatar. The poles ask following questions:

1- Do you approve ISIL' victories in Iraq and Syria?

The Results shows %80 of all respondents approve ISIL Terrorists actions in region!!

2- Do you consider ISIL Organisation's advances in Iraq and Syria to be in favor of our region?

%81.3 responded YES!!
1051409_607.png
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
lets face Facts here. MAD MAX is not Fiction It's the Reality on the Ground in Iraq.

The Iraqi Army does not believe and has not believed it could win on the ground since the American withdrawal. The cause of this is troops who have no motivation because of Distrust of there own Government and Commanders. boosted by witnessing the slaughter of Iraqi army units The Iraqi forces Flee, There discipline Breaks down they panic and fall back. Even when there numbers should assure victory there distrust of there commanders and lack of Faith in Iraq makes them abandon there weapons and there faith and duty.
What is the old Chinese Proverb,
“Kill one to warn a hundred.”
Rome Did it with Crusifiction, Vlad the Impaler did it with wooden posts.The US did it with massive Air strikes and burning Iraqi Tanks. ISIL does it with Sticks stones bullets rusty knives and Shear Brutality.

Baghdad is looking for someone any one to save them and is more then happy to hand over the nation to that savior. IF that means becoming a puppet to Iran So be it.

The Kurds have the will to fight and where they have fought have forced losses on ISIL but they are not going to take back all of Iraq for Baghdad. being brutally honest this is there best chance to establish a Kurdistan and frankly right now It's almost in everyone's interest to do so.

The Syrian sit rep is not much better. ISIL and Al Nusra have divided and infiltrated all the FSA and any Viable Secular militia into non existence. Iranian backed Jihadist forces pretty much have Any Syrian goverment forces wrapped around there little finger.

Iraq and Syria are Gone, In my opinion dead. Short of deployment of large scale conventional armed forces including infantry by the US and a Coalition, A event that would be impossible short of Divine intervention Best Case is A ugly picture. With The Kurds Establishing a Kurdistan line over there territory and branching into Syria
The still Under Iraqi governed portions of Iraq more or less ceded to a Iranian backed Force with a Rump Baghdad. portions of northern Iraq and Syria more or less Absorbed into Turkey and Iran with Syria divided into a few Assad/Iran Controlled city states. Maybe a few small independent city states run by Secular or non aligned or AQ groups all fighting among each other occasionally with Assad and his allies launching more despite Chemical weapon attacks
Finally a large Swath of Territory becoming the Defacto Dystopian Islamic state run by Sharia law, The Kalashnikov and The Rule of Gangs.
no amount of Air Support can change that only a Truly united front but That's not happening.
 
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kwaigonegin

Colonel
Shocking! How people, even if they are Muslims, are sold on ISIL's use of atrocities. And such overwhelming majority.

Actually not shocking at all especially in Qatar and other Gulf States. Unless you are directly affected or have experienced such atrocities yourself the average Arab Sunni on the street is most likely more pro ISIS than their own government and certainly deep seated hatred of the West that they will never admit..

It's no different than the foreign recruits going by the droves to join ISIS especially those from 'moderate' Islamic states and many became disenchanted afterward when they did not find glory and fame but instead ended up being janitors and laborers instead of glorified positions like machine gunners or suicide bombers. Yes suicide bomber is highly sought after position (serious) in the world of ISIS and other Islamic terror groups.

Ironically the USNAVCENT is there but like I said the avg person there hates us being there.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
lets face Facts here. MAD MAX is not Fiction It's the Reality on the Ground in Iraq.

The Iraqi Army does not believe and has not believed it could win on the ground since the American withdrawal. The cause of this is troops who have no motivation because of Distrust of there own Government and Commanders. boosted by witnessing the slaughter of Iraqi army units The Iraqi forces Flee, There discipline Breaks down they panic and fall back. Even when there numbers should assure victory there distrust of there commanders and lack of Faith in Iraq makes them abandon there weapons and there faith and duty.
What is the old Chinese Proverb,
“Kill one to warn a hundred.”
Rome Did it with Crusifiction, Vlad the Impaler did it with wooden posts.The US did it with massive Air strikes and burning Iraqi Tanks. ISIL does it with Sticks stones bullets rusty knives and Shear Brutality.

Baghdad is looking for someone any one to save them and is more then happy to hand over the nation to that savior. IF that means becoming a puppet to Iran So be it.

The Kurds have the will to fight and where they have fought have forced losses on ISIL but they are not going to take back all of Iraq for Baghdad. being brutally honest this is there best chance to establish a Kurdistan and frankly right now It's almost in everyone's interest to do so.

The Syrian sit rep is not much better. ISIL and Al Nusra have divided and infiltrated all the FSA and any Viable Secular militia into non existence. Iranian backed Jihadist forces pretty much have Any Syrian goverment forces wrapped around there little finger.

Iraq and Syria are Gone, In my opinion dead. Short of deployment of large scale conventional armed forces including infantry by the US and a Coalition, A event that would be impossible short of Divine intervention Best Case is A ugly picture. With The Kurds Establishing a Kurdistan line over there territory and branching into Syria
The still Under Iraqi governed portions of Iraq more or less ceded to a Iranian backed Force with a Rump Baghdad. portions of northern Iraq and Syria more or less Absorbed into Turkey and Iran with Syria divided into a few Assad/Iran Controlled city states. Maybe a few small independent city states run by Secular or non aligned or AQ groups all fighting among each other occasionally with Assad and his allies launching more despite Chemical weapon attacks
Finally a large Swath of Territory becoming the Defacto Dystopian Islamic state run by Sharia law, The Kalashnikov and The Rule of Gangs.
no amount of Air Support can change that only a Truly united front but That's not happening.

I agree. As much as it goes against many ideals we in free society believe in, in the ME at thispoint in history a strongman is needed to head the nation. It's really a case of choosing the lesser of 2 evils.

The older I get the more I realized that folks like the Shah, Qaddafi, Saddam, Assad, Khomeini, Mubarak etc while all very brutal in their own right and not saintly by any means at the very least is the preferred option over the pure chaos and anarchy we see today.

I just don't believe that the same play book can be used in the ME like say in Germany, Japan, Vietnam etc where after removing a dictator the country will come together and build itself from the ground up after the initial nation building.
 
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