Russia sells S-400 systems to China

Zetageist

Junior Member
HowThreateningIsTheS-400?
15:15 28.04.2015(updated 15:05 28.04.2015)

A number of publications by American experts and particularly, an article by Michael Cole in The Diplomat examine the possible strategic consequences of deliveries of Russian-made anti-aircraft missile systems S-400 to China.

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However, some foreign experts, after the publishing of Cole’s article have concluded that “anxiety regarding this is premature”, by downplaying potential of these complexes. In a series of articles specially prepared for the “Sputnik”, Vasily Kashin, expert from the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, analyzes this article.

Michael Cole considers that in reality the range of these complexes is insufficient for dealing with targets at a range of 400 kilometers. That is, even if this range is reached, deployment of the system will face serious restrictions at high altitudes. Some of these considerations are, of course, correct, some are pure guesswork.

The main question that arises is will a heavy missile be supplied to China along with S-400 complex? Russia and China will never disclose the specific composition of the S-400, offered for delivery. Only, the fact of conclusion of a contract has been confirmed. All speculations in this regard are tentative. Nevertheless, there are several factors that speak in favor of the fact that China will, all the same, receive deliveries of a heavy missile.

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China, in principle, seeks to minimize dependence on imports of arms and makes significant purchases of foreign technology only when these purchases provide fundamentally new tactical advantages to the PLA.

By the end of the year 2010, China had bought 15 divisions of the Russian anti-aircraft missile system S-300PMU2 “Favorit”, after which purchase of these complexes were suspended. It is obvious that at that time the Chinese had reached a conclusion that these complexes, along with a growing number of their own systems HQ-9, are sufficient for their needs.

They are not planning to return to the question of continuing procurement of the S-300 and keeping in mind only the question of procurement of the S-400. In this case, from the very beginning, it was obvious that the waiting period for deliveries of the first S-400 to PLA will get extended to a lot of years.

S-400, even without the heavy missile 40N6E with a range of 400 km, has certain advantages over the S-300. But these advantages are not that far-reaching. The complex has got modernized ground equipment, but uses the same missiles 48N6E/E2/E3, which are used by the S-300, or an improved version of these missiles.
Improved ground equipment and advanced missile allow for the range to be extended from 200 to 250 km.

The S-400 also has a useful option for using the more light missiles 9M96E/E2 to fight against the enemy’s cruise missiles, but it is hardly worth its quality for the Chinese to place it in their priority list — for this purpose, they have their complex of HQ-16 and a number of other systems. In general, procurement by the PLA of the S-400 without heavy missiles, when they have a significant amount of the S-300PMU2 complexes available with them, with a gradual but a steady growth of characteristics of their own systems HQ-9, simply does not make any sense.

Will the missile 40N6E be made available to the Chinese? Its trials were conducted for a long period, but substantial progress was achieved only in 2012. In early April of the year 2015, after completion of regular and successful trials, it was announced that the missile will be officially inducted into active service in the coming months.

In the Soviet times, such a weapon system would have never been offered for export. But in the post-Soviet period, concluding of export transactions of weapons systems that have not been inducted into the Russian army, has become a common practice.

Russia is not offering S-400 to everyone in a row. “Conventional” buyers of Russian long range air defense systems (for example, Venezuela and Egypt) will now be supplied with the S-300VM (for which, incidentally, there already exists a missile with a range of over 300 kilometers).

Russian officials emphasize that delivery of S-400 to the Chinese is also proof of a special status in political relations between the two countries. It should be kept in mind that for Russia, the importance of maintaining a close partnership with China has significantly increased in the recent years, so the question of supply of heavy missiles may, most likely, get resolved on a positive note.
 

Ultra

Junior Member
I think the flight envelop of 40N6E needs to be re-examine closely - just exactly how high and how far is the effective range of 40N6E??

Most of the analysts / commentators seems to be coming out saying there is nothing to fear of 40N6E because at maximum range of 400 km it will be an inaccurate pussy cat or something like that - but they don't realize how threatening that assumption is - because maybe within 350 km envelop it would be extremely deadly. By completely disregarding it makes it a deadly assumption.

Let's assume if 40N6E's true effective range is 300 km with no escape zone - that is still an amazingly deadly weapon with enormous strategic importance that changes the balance in the pacific.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
All weapons except precise ground attack weapons become more inaccurate with range. Precise attack less so as they are targeted on a fixed point and have no need to track.

I think some posters are getting a little carries away with the implications of the system. It is a formidable addition to China's already formidable AD arsenal and one which enhances existing capabilities and adding some new ones.

A 400km max range is probably of little use against an agile fixed wing aircraft, but this is to miss the point. The S-400 is also an anti missile system and so to be able to engage Cruise Missiles or even Ballistic Missiles, starting at this range is an advantage and actually should be accurate on account of being well beyond the range that terminal attack manoeuvring will begin.

Beyond that, the system increases the Stand Off range for any opponent and increases the reaction time for defenders. It also part of a greater Integrated system and so needs to be looked at in conjunction with the other systems it will compliment.

It is also self propelled and therefore self deploying and an integrated system in itself. It is therefore a useful system to deploy where space and operating power may be limited and speed of the essence.
 

Scratch

Captain
Another point I'd like to add:

While the likely engagement ranges are probably lower for fighters, that system also has the value of being able to constantly hold at risk so called force multipliers, or HVAAs.
Tankers, MPAs, AEWs and the like are of course much more vulnerable and my need to keep station further out. And will fighters / bombers can stay below the horizon for their mission, that is not a solution for those HVAAs, as that would of course reduce their sensor range by the same margin.

Btw, anyone knows if that 40N6E has some kind of an anti-radar capability? It's supposed to be active radar, and the missile is probably big enough to hold a properly large antenna array.
Yet all those active missiles need to get within range, being guided via the ground based radar. I wonder how good that is against proper jamming at beyond 200 or even 300km.
 

Zetageist

Junior Member
Yet all those active missiles need to get within range, being guided via the ground based radar. I wonder how good that is against proper jamming at beyond 200 or even 300km.

I am wondering about that too. If the S-400 coverage is over Taiwan air space, would Taiwan's ground ECM or jammer be able to render S-400 radar ineffective? I asked that because US has the best ECM in the world. According to a 'military expert' on the Taiwan TV media, there were incidences when USN carrier group passing close by Taiwan, USN first notified the Taiwanese authority, then Taiwanese radars became scrambled or jammed.
 

adeptitus

Captain
VIP Professional
A missile's effective range and probability of intercept is dependent on a long list of factors. Detection, altitude, speed, direction, maneuvering, counter-measure, the list goes on. The manufacturer might advertise "400 km" but I think everyone knows that there's no way the missile's real maximum range in combat condition is some nice round number.

In articles written by certain authors on "War is Boring", they might cite the manufacturer's maximum range and blog about its potential threat based on said max range, which is completely unrealistic. It's like game developers taking the max range and cutting it in half for air to air engagements against maneuvering target on a game board. In contrast, Air Power Australia try to provide more technical data that goes over most reader's heads.
 

balance

Junior Member
There is this proposal to counter S-300 with low cost cruise missiles.
Is S-400 a better equipment to deal with this proposed strategy?
 

no_name

Colonel
S-300 and S-400 stations would probably be layered and protected by other assets like AA guns and short range AAM, manpads etc that can engage lower speed and altitude targets like cruise missiles and smart munitions.

Also those things are mobile so unless you know where they are it's not that easy to target them. Saddam was pretty successful hiding his scuds.
 
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