JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

JayBird

Junior Member
One might reasonably ask why Argentina would have accepted any aid from the UK in the first place.

Maybe Argentina is not thinking of the money as aid from the UK, but just cheap rent for the Falkland Islands.:p

I don't think JAS-39 bid ever got a chance when UK can easily block the deal even if Sweden willing to sell them to Argentina. On the other hand, JF-17 is a much safer deal if Argentina got the money and really wanted to buy it.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
To be honest my gut feeling is telling me that JF-17 has secured it's first export order here and it came from a most unexpected country Argentina

I could be wrong but for all intent and purposes I think CAC is testing out subsystems on 0213 as stated by blogspot

2015 big year for Rafale and JF-17 both secure export orders or so I hope so
 

LonE_WolF

New Member
Registered Member
Argentine technical mission to China to assess the purchase of FC-1/ JF-17 jet fighters
Published March 2, 2015 | By
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SOURCE : MERCOPRESS

fc-1.jpg


Negotiations remain secret but according to Argentine sources the purchase could range between 14 and 20 aircraft, basically the FC-1/F-17 ‘Thunder’ which is manufactured by Chendu Aircraft Corporation in association with Pakistan. The single engine fighter is considered modern, affordable for developing countries, and has been tested in combat.

Another option is the Chengdu J-10B, and according to the website China Military Online, closely linked to the Red Army, this fighter has the capability of confronting the “RAFs’ Typhoons stationed in the Falkland Islands”. The website argues that purchasing the FC-1 ‘would be a waste of money’ and the air war expert Xu Yongling points out the J-10B can be equipped with mid-range air to air missiles and close range missiles, comparable to the US AIM-120 and the ‘Sidewinder’.

But contrary to previous offers for renewing the Argentine air force fleet, from Spain, France, Israel and Brazil, the Argentine pilots and support teams have no experience with Chinese jets or equipment. This will be the first time that Argentine technicians will assess ‘capabilities and logistics“.

”The purchase in China is one of several options on the table to replace the Mirages“, according to sources close to Argentine Defense minister Agustín Rossi in reference to the Spanish refurbished Mirage F1, the French Mirage 2000 and Israel’s Kfir offers.

Likewise Argentina’s defense links with China are believed to be quite advanced in reference to the supply of ‘Malvinas Class’ offshore patrol vessels, a polar icebreaker exploration vessel to replace the ”Almirante Irizar” and the 21-ton infantry armored vehicle Norinco VN1 8×8 with 105 mm gun and 120 mm mortar-armed versions, which also includes an amphibious version.

According to Jane’s Defense Weekly if the agreement is concluded, it could mark a major step in Argentina’s long-standing effort to revive its military capabilities and would constitute a major success for China’s 15-year endeavor to expand its military influence and market share in Latin America.

It must also be remembered that in 2011 the Fábrica Argentina de Aviones (Argentine Aircraft Factory: FAdeA) reached an agreement to start co-producing China’s Changhe Z-11 light helicopter.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
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Hello ... once for all !!! All reports coming from "wantchinatimes" can be - they actually have to be - ignored immediately !!!

That would be as if another obscure source would tell that the RuAF will buy Chinese J-20 and scrap the T50 program.

Deino
 

Pampa

New Member
Registered Member
Hello ... once for all !!! All reports coming from "wantchinatimes" can be - they actually have to be - ignored immediately !!!

That would be as if another obscure source would tell that the RuAF will buy Chinese J-20 and scrap the T50 program.

Deino

As an Argentine citizen I just hope Mercopress can be considered a "reliable" source ...
Best regards
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
As an Argentine citizen I just hope Mercopress can be considered a "reliable" source ...
Best regards


I wouldn't call it a source, since the original content - the report about these negotiations and the rumours around them - are from other "Sources" ... anyway it sums up what's on the table so far ...
 

Miragedriver

Brigadier
I wouldn't call it a source, since the original content - the report about these negotiations and the rumours around them - are from other "Sources" ... anyway it sums up what's on the table so far ...


***Off Topic***

Dear Friends. I’ll believe it when I see the first JF-17 being assembled!
I’ve heard this so many times before that I have become cynical.

Along time ago it was the Mirage 2000 from the UAE...........

Then the Jordanian Mirage F-1, then the some used French F-1, then rumors of the FC-1/JF-17, which were dismissed; then the Spanish Mirage F-1; Then the Israeli Kfir Block 60; then the JAS-39 from Brazil; then the Su-24 Fencers and now the FC-1/JF-17 again…….Granted the Jordanian, French and Spanish deals were scuttled by the British, but still this game of playacting the Air Force is getting old.

I am sure we will have another three or four proclamations before the presidential elections in the spring (i.e. fall for my northern hemisphere brothers).

Secondly, from my understanding there are two factors currently delaying the production of the Z-11. As you know, the first two Z-11 assembled by Fabrica Argentina de Aviones (FAdeA) are flying and undergoing evaluation.

First delay: The signature of the MoU has caused some consternation at Eurocopter as the Z-11s introduction into the South American may have broken a previously undisclosed agreement made between Eurocopter and Avicopter in early 2011 about the sale of license-built Eurocopter helicopters by Avicopter outside China.

The Z-11 is not a license-built Eurocopter aircraft but is virtually identical to the AS350 Ecureuil and Eurocopter is understood to be concerned about protection from liabilities because the designs are so similar

FadeA_Z-11_Argentina.jpg


Second delay: The z-11 as mentioned is undergoing evaluation and is being customized for the Argentine Military. This comes from the memorandum of understanding (MoU) signed with Chinese helicopter company Avicopter and its parent CATIC in October 2011 to assemble the Z-11 light helicopter for both the Argentine and the Latin American market.


Back to bottling my Grenache

***Back on Topic***
 

Alvaritus

New Member
Registered Member
I dont think this would work out, but at least seems PAC/CAIC salespeople are earning their pay:

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Bulgaria is to be offered the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex/Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (PAC/CAC) JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft, according to national media reports.

The single-seat, single-engined fighter is to be offered by Pakistan as an alternative to the several Western aircraft types that are all vying to be selected by Bulgaria as it looks to replace its ageing MiG-29 'Fulcrum' and Sukhoi Su-25 'Frogfoot' platforms, the novinite.com Sofia News Agency reported on 4 March.

No details pertaining to costs or potential delivery timelines were revealed.

The Bulgarian government has stated that it will choose to buy new or secondhand Western fighters, or commit to a further MiG-29 upgrade. The acquisition of 'new' fighters is expected to cost more than BGN500 million (USD282 million), although actual new aircraft, such as Lockheed Martin Block 52 F-16s, are almost certainly unaffordable.

Contenders for secondhand jets include surplus Block 25 F-16s from the US Air National Guard, F-16 midlife upgrade aircraft from Belgium, early tranche Eurofighter Typhoons from the Italian Air Force, or surplus Saab Gripens from Sweden.

Developed jointly by China (where it is designated the FC-1) and Pakistan, the JF-17 Thunder made its maiden flight in 2004. Powered by a single Russian-designed but Chinese-built Klimov RD-93 (RD-33 derivative) turbofan, it has a top speed of Mach 1.6 (at altitude); a radius-of-operation of 648 n miles (1,200 km) as a fighter and 378 n miles (700 km) as a ground attack platform; a range of 971 n miles (1,798 km) on internal fuel, or 1,100 n miles (2,037 km) for ferry; a service ceiling of 52,500 ft; and a g-rating of +8.5/-3.5.

It has seven underwing/fuselage hardpoints, and is equipped with an internal GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon. Weapon options include up to four PL-5, -7, -8 or -9 short-range air-to-air missiles (AAMs) or four PL-12/SD-10B medium-range AAMs; two C-802A anti-ship missiles; two anti-radiation missiles; five 500 kg bombs; twin launchers for up to eight 250 kg, MK-20, GBU-12 or anti-runway bombs; single 1,000 kg bomb or GBU-10; or up to three mission pods.

ANALYSIS
Although widely offered for export with countries such as Argentina, Serbia, and even Saudi Arabia, the JF-17 has yet to secure its first international customer.

While Bulgaria's economic situation would appear to make it a good candidate for the approximately USD30 million fighter (a comparable Western type would likely cost double this at least), its status as a NATO member would not.

As one of the alliance's newest members, Bulgaria is striving towards achieving full interoperability with its NATO partners, and indeed this is one of the primary reasons that it is looking to replace its Soviet-era MiGs and Sukhois. The JF-17 is not a NATO-compatible aircraft (although it can be upgraded to be so), and so is not a good fit for Bulgaria operationally.

Politically, such a procurement of a joint Chinese-Pakistani platform would be extremely difficult for Bulgaria, as evidenced by the reaction to Turkey's proposed procurement of the China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) HQ-9 air and missile defence system in 2013.

That decision caused a fury, with Turkey's alliance partners saying that the Chinese system would never be integrated with NATO systems, effectively forcing a back down from the Turkish government, which is now moving away from the HQ-9 and is restarting negotiations with US and European suppliers instead.

Being a new and enthusiastic member of NATO, Bulgaria will be loath to place itself in a similar position, and for this reason primarily it would seem that a JF-17 buy is not likely to happen.
 

cloyce

Junior Member
"...Powered by a single Russian-designed but Chinese-built Klimov RD-93 (RD-33 derivative)... "


Is RD-93 license-built by chinese? Can anyone confirm this?
 
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