Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

aksha

Captain
FMBT Design (not frozen, early concept)

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This is a rather recent design, because the commandor sight is the new IRDE commander sight.
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aksha

Captain
If that is factually true, is India planning or has initiated performance claims against the supplier for breach of contract?

if they do ,they will somehow manage to shoot themselves in the foot.
like they did with Finemecca
any here's more on the scorpenes

Rear Admiral (retd) Rahul Shrawat, Chairman and Managing Director, MDL said, "Earlier too this project was delayed on account of Mazagon Procurement Material (MPM) not being procured on time. Fresh MPM was ordered following a review. Of that, while some parts have come, some have not despite their delivery deadlines expiring. I am being forced to absorb delays and on many occasions I am undoing work I have done because parts come in later on". He added that the Ministry of Defence had been briefed over this and the 'pressure from all sides' was being applied on DCNS to deliver. "Even if it comes through today, I can deliver the boat on time," he mentioned. When asked if a revised timeline will have to worked out, following the delay, his response was, "I can't comment till the material actually comes to me."

It was informed that the first of the Scorpene boats was ready to be 'launched' in September next year. A year of trials after that, involving all systems including weapon firing, she should be ready for commissioning into the navy i.e in September 2016. "Work is going on 24 by 7 at the yard and we are highly motivated. My fingers are crossed," he added.
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aksha

Captain
Indian Light Combat Copter Goes Through Cold Tests

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Cold weather trials of India's Light Combat Helicopter were carried out at Air Force Station, Leh early last month. “The trials covered engine starts with internal batteries after overnight cold soak at 3 km altitude and 4.1 km altitude”, HAL chairman T. Suvarna Raju has said in a statement. The engine starts were satisfactory in the temperature of minus 18 degree C at 4.1 km, the flights were also carried out to assess high altitude performance and low speed handling, the statement said.

The LCH prototype, TD2 was ferried from Bangalore to Leh and the flight trials were carried out involving customer pilots from Air Force and Army and with the participation of representatives from RCMA (H/c) and DGAQA (H/c).
“Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) Technology Demonstrator TD-3 made its maiden flight in November last year and the TD-4 is likely to fly soon. The IOC is expected in the later part of this year and to achieve this we are concentrating on building more prototypes and increase the number of flights to reduce the lead-time for IOC”, Raju said.
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Which SOS button? The T-50 or FGFA button but according to this article they are now the same? Lol.

The Russians are seeking another 11 billion dollars for R&D, the Indians are saying we need the aircraft yesterday, and we will purchase the Russian PAK-FA as it is to built for the VVS, and we will negotiate and pay for FGFA later as/if needed??
So the Indians realize that the T-50 as built for the VVS will meet their immediate need for a more capable aircraft, and that the tailor-made Indian bird can and will wait.
The Russians would rather have that 11 billion to help "capitalize" this program and move forward with their own aircraft?

it takes money??? to make money???? ehh, Heh, Heh!
 

Quon_Duixote

New Member
The Russians are seeking another 11 billion dollars for R&D, the Indians are saying we need the aircraft yesterday, and we will purchase the Russian PAK-FA as it is to built for the VVS, and we will negotiate and pay for FGFA later as/if needed??
So the Indians realize that the T-50 as built for the VVS will meet their immediate need for a more capable aircraft, and that the tailor-made Indian bird can and will wait.
The Russians would rather have that 11 billion to help "capitalize" this program and move forward with their own aircraft?

it takes money??? to make money???? ehh, Heh, Heh!
Gotta give it to the Indians for their insane procurement process ( wait, is there one actually??)..There is scant foresight, forethought or any manner of discipline... This whole Rafale fiasco has had taught the Indians nothing in how to deal with the very very shrewd and cunning arms merchants..its sad and pathetic at the same time #endrant
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
India is far too obsessed with China, and the desperation to match China is pulling their entire defense strategy out of shape.

I think people should give the Indian government and military a little more credit. Their decisions do make a certain kind of sense if you understand how massive an impact any news from China can have on their entire decision making process and long term strategy.

The Rafale deal made sense when the best the PLAAF had, and looked likely to have for a while yet, was the J11 and J10 mix.

The IAF thought they would be in a good place with the MKI vs J11B and Rafale vs J10B matchup, and they would have probably been right.

Buying into the FGFA seemed like future proofing for the IAF, where they expected to get fifth gens some years before the PLAAF even if the Russians get PAKFAs first.

The J20 and J31 blew all that out of the water.

Suddenly the IAF was looking down the prospect of seeming J20s on PLAAF frontline service at the same time, if not earlier than PAKFAs in Russian service.

Even though the J31's status is still in limbo, the IAF planners would have ran with the worst case scenario of that too entering PLAAF service, and it would likely do so around the same time as Rafales become operational with the IAF.

MKIs vs J20s and Rafales vs J31s looks decidedly less appealing now.

Cue the shelving of FGFA and instead wanting to just go with Russian standard PAKFAs to try and match expected PLAAF J20 IOC timetables, and the feet dragging and indecision on the Rafale.
 

Brumby

Major
Gotta give it to the Indians for their insane procurement process ( wait, is there one actually??)..There is scant foresight, forethought or any manner of discipline... This whole Rafale fiasco has had taught the Indians nothing in how to deal with the very very shrewd and cunning arms merchants..its sad and pathetic at the same time #endrant

In my view their biggest adversary is themselves. There are two primary drivers that are adding immense complexity onto their procurement process. Firstly is the bureaucratic black hole that does endless reviews and by the time there is actually signed off, technology and cost has significantly changed. That inevitably ends up in further reviews and changes to requirements and so this iteration goes on until it exhaust itself in the process. On top of that you have the change in government and policies in between the iterations that add further variables unto the pot. Secondly, after a decision is taken to go with the program, you then have the indigenous hurdle that gets thrown in and so you end up with another few rounds of negotiations and reviews to bed down a foreign partner (e.g. Rafale). Once that is in place there is the final reality check that local build is a difficult endeavour that requires ramping up of skills, infrastructure and supply chain that is often under estimated (e.g. Scopene). You then have the in between programs like the LCA that after a rather protracted period, you get a small initial batch of planes that no one seems to want to sign off in taking delivery and the focus yet again is shifting towards adding new capabilities and development rather than production.

There is a quote that I like to use when I see this type of problem "we have seen the enemy and he is us".
 

A Bar Brother

Junior Member
Is there a change in procurement plan as my understanding is that India's plan was to acquire the FGFA sometime starting around 2022/2023 (I think) rather than taking on board initially T-50's? Certainly not immediately like in 2016 as the article seems to suggest, as that would be a curved ball.

There seems to be a change in the plans, going by the article. It is not necessary for the IAF to get the PAKFA right away. But they could get it a few years before FGFA is ready.

The main issue with the depleting numbers coming from the MIG-21 retirement was the failure of the LCA program to meet program timetable. The Rafale purchase was a supplement towards the depletion pool and a bridge in capability gap until the introduction of the FGFA. This latest plan to bring forward the FGFA program is fundamentally unsound both strategically and tactically.

The LCA as a Mig-21 replacement was in the past, more than 2 decades ago. Now, everything is replacing all the Migs. The fact is we have far more Migs than you think. When the LCA project was in its initial stages, we had over 750 Mig-21/23/27s. Once the LCA was delayed, the MKI and Rafale became the alternatives to replace the Migs. The MKIs have directly replaced Mig-21s and Mig-23s. Rafale will directly replace existing Mig-27s. Eventually, FGFA and LCA will replace what's remaining. We still have too many Migs, 14 squadrons as of today even after the induction of 200+ MKIs.

The right thing to do is to kick start the LCA rather than continue to fiddle with it with new technologies. HAL needs to produce the planes in numbers. I don't understand why after so many years, production still haven't ramp up. Additionally, India needs to make up its mind on the Rafale rather than eight years of negotiations and still counting. Staring at depletion numbers but with no sound plan is mismanagement.

LCA Mk1 won't see more inductions. It will go into training squadrons after development is complete. The twin-seater Mk1s may see more orders though. The Mk2 is the future of the LCA program. And first flight of the air force version is expected in 2018. Its induction is far into the next decade, probably after FGFA is ready.

Rafale negotiations started in 2012.

Resorting to T-50's to make up the numbers to me is both pure desperation and fantasy.

IAF did not plan on inducting 270 MKIs. The plan was for 230 MKIs and now it looks like they will need 40 more. Eventually even Rafales will cross the 200 mark, possibly even touch 300. 300 MKIs, 200 Rafales, 200 FGFAs, 200 AMCAs, 120+ LCAs is the current goal for the IAF.

In case the Rafale doesn't materialize, then the only fallback option is a lot of T-50s and FGFAs.
 
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