Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
IN pilots performed many such manoeuvres while they were waiting for carrier. Again, something would show up if there was something to show .
Not necessarily.

It depends on the issue.

Issues can be fatigue or other wear and tear related issues that would not necessarily show up until later.

Quite frankly, we do not know what has happened...or, as has been stated, whether this report is reliable in the first place.

But such a report needs to be taken seriously and investigated. I am sure, since this was aired in a fairly large and heretofore fairly credible publication, that that is exactly what the Indian Navy will do.
 
Last edited:

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Mig-29 had/has many issues, but not with the engines . And it is not exactly operating from the carrier for the first time. There were tests back in Russia before the Vikramaditya was handed over . With such statistically significant number of alleged "pack-ups" something would show up earlier .


From the point of engine, touch-and-go is same when it happens on concrete and on deck. And IN pilots performed many such manoeuvres while they were waiting for carrier. Again, something would show up if there was something to show .

The RD-33s that power the Mig-29 have historically had a very low MTOH, some reporting as low as 200 hrs in the past. The Malaysians were hoping for 750 hrs back in 2005??? So to be honest the RD-33s have had a very smokey past and short life span. Engine change is reputed to be 2 hrs for that very reason, I'm sure flight teams etc of the VVS can come very close to that. For certain the MTBOs has improved, and they smoke a great deal less than they did?

In the past very little field maintenance was performed as the aircraft was deployed but delayed until Depot Maintenance, such as was recently performed on the MK1s??? the MIG-29K is the first Naval variant, and although it was test flown extensively by the Russians, there was a proportionately small group of aircraft, and yes the MIG-29K is beginning to rack up some hours, and the carrier environment is a much harder life than land based aircraft.
On land the approach is flown, a little bit of power is carried all the way through approach and final, bleeding power off over the numbers. There is no slamming the throttle to the wall upon touchdown, which is a big engine No-No in real life if you intend to meet TBO. The physical abuse of contact with the carrier deck is also hard on bearings etc, not only on the powerplant, but on the whole aircraft, you need to envision what is going on, and that salt spray is "poison", particularly at high power settings, such as those required to fly the aircraft off that ramp?
 

Brumby

Major
the MIG-29K is the first Naval variant, and although it was test flown extensively by the Russians, there was a proportionately small group of aircraft, and yes the MIG-29K is beginning to rack up some hours, and the carrier environment is a much harder life than land based aircraft.
On land the approach is flown, a little bit of power is carried all the way through approach and final, bleeding power off over the numbers. There is no slamming the throttle to the wall upon touchdown, which is a big engine No-No in real life if you intend to meet TBO. The physical abuse of contact with the carrier deck is also hard on bearings etc, not only on the powerplant, but on the whole aircraft, you need to envision what is going on, and that salt spray is "poison", particularly at high power settings, such as those required to fly the aircraft off that ramp?

I am glad you are pointing it out because the Mig-29 is traditionally a land based aircraft. The relatively smaller number of navalised version lacks a broader and deeper history of operations especially at sea and off a carrier. It is possible that the harsher environment as you pointed out is starting to be reflected in engine and associated problems particularly if the MTBF is based principally off land based MIg-29's data.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
The RD-33s that power the Mig-29 have historically had a very low MTOH, some reporting as low as 200 hrs in the past. The Malaysians were hoping for 750 hrs back in 2005??? So to be honest the RD-33s have had a very smokey past and short life span. Engine change is reputed to be 2 hrs for that very reason, I'm sure flight teams etc of the VVS can come very close to that. For certain the MTBOs has improved, and they smoke a great deal less than they did?

Every manufacturer prescribes scheduled overhauls for its engines. Typically for Russian engines, RD-33 requires those to be very frequent compared to Western counterparts . Yet, they were designed to endure more primitive conditions and less technical support . And with that regular maintenance as scheduled, Mig-29 is very reliable , with relatively low crash rate even in Third World countries .

In the past very little field maintenance was performed as the aircraft was deployed but delayed until Depot Maintenance, such as was recently performed on the MK1s??? the MIG-29K is the first Naval variant, and although it was test flown extensively by the Russians, there was a proportionately small group of aircraft, and yes the MIG-29K is beginning to rack up some hours, and the carrier environment is a much harder life than land based aircraft.
On land the approach is flown, a little bit of power is carried all the way through approach and final, bleeding power off over the numbers. There is no slamming the throttle to the wall upon touchdown, which is a big engine No-No in real life if you intend to meet TBO. The physical abuse of contact with the carrier deck is also hard on bearings etc, not only on the powerplant, but on the whole aircraft, you need to envision what is going on, and that salt spray is "poison", particularly at high power settings, such as those required to fly the aircraft off that ramp?

India operates Mig-29 (land-based) for decades, and Mig-29K for years . And yes, they did simulate carrier landings even before they got carrier , including slamming throttle to the wall on touchdown . Mig-29 has many faults , but not enduring rough conditions is not one of them ;) Aircraft was designed to be front line fighter, capable to operate even on dirt strips .

Overall, as more and more pictures appear of what seems to be regular operations of INS Vikramaditya, I don't want to waste any more time on half-baked articles from unreliable journalists.
 

aksha

Captain
Here's the Indian MoD's statement in Parliament on the Rafale deal. Doesn't talk of 'negotiations' any more.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

l5f6A0R.jpg
 

aksha

Captain
India delays induction of first Scorpene submarine

The Indian Navy has delayed the induction of the first of six Scorpene-class submarines, according to Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar.

It was originally scheduled for delivery in December 2012.

Shipyard Mazagon Docks (MDL) in Mumbai, India, is building the vessels under a technology-transfer agreement with France's DCNS.

In a written reply to Dr Chandan Mitra, Parrikar said the delay is because of difficulties faced by MDL during the course of procurement of materials from foreign vendors.The shipyard has reportedly augmented its manpower, infrastructure and industrial means to meet production targets.

In October 2005, a contract was awarded to DCNS to build six Scorpene-class submarines, as part of the Rs187.98bn ($4.16bn) Project 75.

"The 1,750t Scorpene-class vessels will be equipped with a sonar suite."

The Economic Times reported that the then Indian Defence Minister Arun Jaitley said last year that the vessel would be delivered by September 2016.

Powered by two diesel generation sets, the 1,750t Scorpene-class vessels will be equipped with a sonar suite that includes a long-range, passive cylindrical array, intercept and active sonars, distributed and flank array, as well as a high-resolution sonar for mine and obstacle avoidance, and a towed array.

Armed with SM-39 Exocet anti-ship missiles, the 67m-long submarines can dive up to a depth of 300m, require minimum manning and help reduce lifecycle costs.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Every manufacturer prescribes scheduled overhauls for its engines. Typically for Russian engines, RD-33 requires those to be very frequent compared to Western counterparts . Yet, they were designed to endure more primitive conditions and less technical support . And with that regular maintenance as scheduled, Mig-29 is very reliable , with relatively low crash rate even in Third World countries .
India operates Mig-29 (land-based) for decades, and Mig-29K for years . And yes, they did simulate carrier landings even before they got carrier .

Actually India was lucky to get 200 hrs TBO out of their land based Mig-29s, which as I stated is "very low TBO", no one in the West would consider a 200 hr TBO engine for any aircraft, that is between a fifth and a tenth of what Western engines typically run between overhauls???
Using the excuse that they are designed for rough use is just echoing what I already stated, but I have no doubt that India was expecting to get a lot more service hours out of the Mig-29K, as it is supposedly upgraded??

So Air Force Brat says, "these aren't the droids you are looking for",
and Thunderchief says?? "move along, these aren't the droids we are looking for!" sorry Chief I just had to pull your leg a little bit buddy,, lately we have been on the same page, and no doubt we are here????
My point was that India is no doubt expecting a much better TBO on these Naval Birds, and they may very well be disappointed on these girls, that carrier life is rough, and no amount of slamming throttles to the wall on land is going to simulate that kablammo! you get when you slam onto that deck, it is counter intuitive to a USAF pilot to allow that kind of sink rate to develop, and anathema to allow it to continue to touchdown? It would be instant wash-out, but on the carrier, its the only way to get it on deck? just a whole nother world, truth!
 

Brumby

Major
Actually India was lucky to get 200 hrs TBO out of their land based Mig-29s, which as I stated is "very low TBO", no one in the West would consider a 200 hr TBO engine for any aircraft, that is between a fifth and a tenth of what Western engines typically run between overhauls???
Using the excuse that they are designed for rough use is just echoing what I already stated, but I have no doubt that India was expecting to get a lot more service hours out of the Mig-29K, as it is supposedly upgraded??
It also demonstrates that you ultimately get what you paid for. Russian products might seem cheap comparatively on up front costs but once you factor in running and maintenance cost there is a different story to it.
 

Brumby

Major
India delays induction of first Scorpene submarine

What is the actual story on this because I am reading a political spin in the way selected words were used? The Defence Minister said difficulties were faced "during the course of procurement" which suggest to me an internal procurement issue. In contrast, if the delay was caused by foreign vendors, the words "during the course" would have been left out. A cursory reading of the text might imply a delay caused by foreign suppliers but the construction of the sentence may suggest a different story to it.

"In a written reply to Dr Chandan Mitra, Parrikar said the delay is because of difficulties faced by MDL during the course of procurement of materials from foreign vendors."
 
Top