ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

solarz

Brigadier
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Here is an analysis of why people join ISIS, but I found this user comment far more insightful:

Mundane analyses like this always miss a key point: the Islamic State taps into a legitimate hunger in the modern world, and perhaps the most potent force in human history: the will to power of young men, united in faith and vision, with nothing to lose, transcending themselves by marching off to fight for religion, honor and glory.

In reality, it is modern Westerners who live proscribed, mundane, empty lives by comparison, as they work to turn this planet into some kind of grey, mechanized, corporate prison. Jihadists enjoy a kind of freedom and vital existence that most of us only dream about, which is why they win recruits.

To people conditioned by the feminized, secularized, nihilistic culture of the modern West, jihadists are an abomination and an aberration. In reality, it is the decadent West that is the aberration, and it is the Islamic State that is closer to the historical norm. Unless and until these shortcomings of our own civilization are addressed, I expect jihadists to make continued inroads. No doubt something similar happened when the Athenians met the Spartans, and the late Romans came up against Germanic tribes. This is an ancient pattern of history, of revitalization of decadent civilizations by "barbarians", and the West appears to be next in line to learn this hard lesson.

One does not need to personally agree with this view of western civilization to accept the fact that there *are* many people who do think this, and I believe that this is in fact the driving force behind the appeal of ISIS.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Another phenomena that is occurring at the same time is that young men from the west...and in particular recent US military veterans...are now joining up with Kurds and others to fight ISIS.

I watched a special last night on an American, 28 years old, after 6 years with the US Army, who has gone back to fight with the Kurds...and he is recruiting other US veterans to form a unit of US Military trained fighters.

Apparently he already has six others in that group.

I expect to see more of this.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
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Here is an analysis of why people join ISIS, but I found this user comment far more insightful:



One does not need to personally agree with this view of western civilization to accept the fact that there *are* many people who do think this, and I believe that this is in fact the driving force behind the appeal of ISIS.
Unfortunately I do somewhat agree with the analysis. Yes while filtering thorugh our modern lenses, these ISIS atrocities are stomach churning and an absolute abomination however this is not anything new.

Whether it's the barbarians, the Incas, Aztecs, Mongols, Romans, Celtics, Nazis, IJA, Khmer Rouge and a hundred more... ... pretty much throughout human history. Some of the acts commited by ISIS on their fellow humans are no more brutal .. and dare I say maybe even less extreme than what the Aztecs et al did to each other or when hordes or Barbarian tribes, Celtics bands did to the people of rival villages, towns.

Just like a few here, I've studied many books and journals on warfare throughout human civilization and we're talking some really really sick twisted things here than I won't even mention.

Don't get me wrong, they are all very cruel however I am just bringing things into perspective.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Unfortunately I do somewhat agree with the analysis. Yes while filtering thorugh our modern lenses, these ISIS atrocities are stomach churning and an absolute abomination however this is not anything new.

Whether it's the barbarians, the Incas, Aztecs, Mongols, Romans, Celtics, Nazis, IJA, Khmer Rouge and a hundred more... ... pretty much throughout human history. Some of the acts commited by ISIS on their fellow humans are no more brutal .. and dare I say maybe even less extreme than what the Aztecs et al did to each other or when hordes or Barbarian tribes, Celtics bands did to the people of rival villages, towns.

Just like a few here, I've studied many books and journals on warfare throughout human civilization and we're talking some really really sick twisted things here than I won't even mention.

Don't get me wrong, they are all very cruel however I am just bringing things into perspective.

You bring up a great point! ISIS takes Terrorism, with a capital T, to a whole new level. Or perhaps I should say, took it back to its roots.

Suicide bombing intimidates people, but public displays of brutality both intimidates and inspires. Especially brutality backed by the force of conviction (whether religious or secular). Again, I refer to that comment, of which the first paragraph sums this up perfectly:

the Islamic State taps into a legitimate hunger in the modern world, and perhaps the most potent force in human history: the will to power of young men, united in faith and vision, with nothing to lose, transcending themselves by marching off to fight for religion, honor and glory.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
From the article:

"The Islamic State taps into a legitimate hunger in the modern world, and perhaps the most potent force in human history: the will to power of young men, united in faith and vision, with nothing to lose, transcending themselves by marching off to fight for religion, honor and glory."


I believe this is giving them far too much credit...and far too much respect.

The Islamic state taps into the WILL TO POWER for sure...but not for altruistic or honorable reasons.

It taps into a dark side of the will to power to force other people to bend to their will...or to what they call their interpretation of Allah's will...and to do so through the most brutal means available.

There are, and always have been, people who are drawn to this "dark side." And ISIS is out in the open, boldly recruiting those type of people to its ranks. Al Queda did the same. The SS did the same.

It's always some how, "we are the masters and others must obey us, be slaves, or die." That is not new...but it is something that far too many people somehow felt could never happen in our so-called "modern," "enlightened," times.

Well...they are no more enlightened or better than any other time. We may have faster computers, more memory, better access to data, etc., etc...but we are still human and human frailties, weaknesses, and a tendency for some to persecute and try and rule over others are as much with us now as they have been for millennia.

One of the best quotes that explains how that is held at bay that I ever heard was this:

"Liberty sleeps peacefully at night because there are rough men who stand ready to do violence on behalf of liberty to those who would take it away."

I heard that twenty years ago at a conference, and I believe the speaker got it from a Washington Times article in the early 1990s...but that it, in turn was actually an adaptation of a George Orwell quote from the 1940s during World War II when he was writing about Rudyard Kipling and Kipling's quote, "making mock of uniforms that guard you while you sleep," which Orwell expounded on.
 
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Brumby

Major
these ISIS atrocities are stomach churning and an absolute abomination however this is not anything new.

Whether it's the barbarians, the Incas, Aztecs, Mongols, Romans, Celtics, Nazis, IJA, Khmer Rouge and a hundred more... ... pretty much throughout human history. Some of the acts commited by ISIS on their fellow humans are no more brutal .. and dare I say maybe even less extreme than what the Aztecs et al did to each other or when hordes or Barbarian tribes, Celtics bands did to the people of rival villages, towns.

Just like a few here, I've studied many books and journals on warfare throughout human civilization and we're talking some really really sick twisted things here than I won't even mention.

Don't get me wrong, they are all very cruel however I am just bringing things into perspective.

I respectively disagree with your line of thinking from a philosophical standpoint that acts committed in the present age is no worse than those historically. Animals kill other preys the same way as it always has throughout history but humans by way of development as a society should be making progress and not reverting to being like animals. We have made killings more clinical, widespread and even remotely but not intentionally barbaric and that in my view is an attitude and behavioural problem.
 

thunderchief

Senior Member
"It is written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." -Matthew 4:4 . And indeed, modern civilization is based on bread and circus, nihilism and materialism , lacking spiritual and something greater then mundane life .

ISIS, although a perversion of faith, still offers radically different world view, especially for young man (18 - 25) on margins of modern society . I'm afraid that something ISIS-like (not necessarily Islamic, it could be something entirely different) would soon grow even in the traditional West , based on that spiritual hunger and lack of purpose in life .
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
I respectively disagree with your line of thinking from a philosophical standpoint that acts committed in the present age is no worse than those historically. Animals kill other preys the same way as it always has throughout history but humans by way of development as a society should be making progress and not reverting to being like animals. We have made killings more clinical, widespread and even remotely but not intentionally barbaric and that in my view is an attitude and behavioural problem.

I think you misunderstood.. I never said it was acceptable nor is condone. Like you said ultimately it is a behaviorial problem brought upon by anger, hate, despair and of course brainwashing. But human behavior while muted in modern times and civilization is still ever present and can manifest itself at any given time given the right situation or environmental conditions. As much as we like to think we're civilized and have evolved past the 'cavemen' days, the truth is we are one major catastrophic event away from reverting to many of the barbaric behaviors of our ancestors.
 

advill

Junior Member
BEFORE the ISIS or IS barbarians are at our gates, STOP them. They are ruthless fanatics following their misguided ideology just like the Nazis during WW II. There should be Coalitions of the Willing to eradicate them in all regions including Asia. Care has to be taken as these ISIS/IS are brain-washed/conditioned adherents, and they have, and will use all methods to achieve their objectives. They use young children (girls and boys), impressionable youths, frustrated individuals etc. to do their dirty work. They try to instill fear, but we must never be afraid like the King of Jordan and his people. Finish them off but take care as they are crafty "devils" in disguise.
 
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