*New J-10 Thread*

Post 122,123 (i aint gonna quote all that,it would only result to floods)


firstly no i am not Indian, I just wanted to get the Best-of-the-Best information outta you. I was evaluating if the F-18 was comparable to the J-10. reading your previous posts, I thought that you would know about radars etc. I figured that if the F-18 was in a state lower to the SU-30MKI , but I couldn't confirm this so I asked you a couple things. I also wanted to know whether the J-10 would be equivelent or superior to the F-18. you know where i am going with this?

to post 123,

I didn not know that IAF discusisons carried out here would be deleted, my apologies. But If you read a few posts back, I said that I was comparing the J-10 to MKI . Therefore if J-10 did have its chances against the MKI then I would know that it would be able to stand againt the F-18. I look at things from a different point of view.

By the way I am a Pakistani

I think the su-35 belongs in 4.5 gen simply because of its extremely capable weapons loadout and at least decent radar. Its manuverability is, also, close to being unmatched. In british tests, the fighter achieved a 1:1 kill ratio against the Rafale. Using logic we know it must be gen 4 aswell. Since the j-10 beat upgraded j-11s with simlar performance to the su-35, j-10 must also be nearing 4.5 gen.

istvan, i didnt mean to offend you by askign whether or not you were indian. if i did, im sry. If you really wished to get some info, all you need to do is ask, rather than posting fake or biased information.

I think the ban on indian topics has lifted, as long as they arnt bashing. To keep it that way, lets forget the MKI.

It has been discussed many times in many forums, but conclusion seems to be that inherent lpi ability of aesa radars depends on the output power translating into range. Also, different frequency of diff modules, not unlike frequency hopping, is combated with software and cpu power. Radars get better, RWRs get better.

It would not happen that super bug tracks and locks onto EF or j10, without them knowing it. Yes, with an/apg79 it can both detect the j10 and EF and start tracking them before they can start tracking the super bug. But as far as missile launches are considered, no side would have the advantage of undetected launch. Sure, if you're flying in mig23 or even first mig29s, your RWR system would not be programmed to recognize the mode of work of aesa radars, but both EFs and j10s RWR systems are likely to detect it. Yes, likely, i can not offer hard proof. so shoot me.

BVR fight between those planes would depend more on missile specs than anything else. WVR would probably favor EF and j10, unless we're talking about low speed, low altitude fight. Though, aim9x and hmd on f18e does seem to be quite a potent combo which todays j10 can't quite match with its pl8 and possible/probable su27 generation hms. Still, all these planes would be quite close, victory would be up for grabs. If i absolutely have to pick, i'd pick EF.

Totoro said:

It would not happen that super bug tracks and locks onto EF or j10, without them knowing it. Yes, with an/apg79 it can both detect the j10 and EF and start tracking them before they can start tracking the super bug. But as far as missile launches are considered, no side would have the advantage of undetected launch. Sure, if you're flying in mig23 or even first mig29s, your RWR system would not be programmed to recognize the mode of work of aesa radars, but both EFs and j10s RWR systems are likely to detect it. Yes, likely, i can not offer hard proof. so shoot me.

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Is KLJ-3 in it's current guise capable enough to get a lock on a target sizing in fractions (0.1 sq.m for super bug and 0.1-0.5 sq.m for typhoon ,correct me if i am wrong) at an arbitrary BVR range where both these fighters will get a lock on 1.5-2.0 sq.m(correct me on my guess here if wrong) sized aircraft for sure??

I dont feel Aim-9x offers the U.s a great advantage against China aircraft.
The reason? Sure, the missle has a very advanced mid-wave IR Focal Plane Array (FPA) seeker, and some other improved performance charactersitics. However, the helmet used to guide is one of Americas first uses of a HMS. Chiense company like Louyang have already introduced Second gen helmet to replace the Arsenal. The aim-9x cannot match the incredible aerodynamic and manuverability performance of China's r-73.The gimbal seekr on the r-73 is very agile, and is capable of bring the missle to down most fighters today. Plus, the r-73 has roughly a 5km range advantage over the aim-9x, giving a flanker a chance pump off a few mroe rounds first.

If i am not wrong, then USAF uses JHMS which was developed in co-operation with Israel, needless to say israelis are leaders in that area.





"Israel's Elbit teamed with US based Kaiser Aerospace and Electronics, under the banner of Vision Systems International, to win the USAF and Navy Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) requirement in 1997. This envisages a common helmet mounted display for US F-16, Boeing F-15 Eagle, Boeing F/A-18 Hornet and Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor combat aircraft. Production is scheduled to begin in April 2000.
"

Just something that caught my attention from the Chinese forums.

上午8:30分在人民大会堂隆重举行了航空工业建立55周年庆祝大会,611所杨伟总师做了报告.
杨伟总师在做报告时说:歼10的下一代战机将在5年内上天

杨伟总师还说歼10达到上世纪90年代世界先进水平.不久的将来在满足空军需要的前提下出口
今天下午,CCTV白岩松或水均益将采访杨伟总师.
大家等着看东方之子吧,将会有大量歼10的镜头,包括已经服役的4字头和1字头的歼10

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Yang Wei, the chief engineer for J-10 I think, said that "J-10's next generation fighter will fly within 5 years". This happened in the recent celebration of 55th anniversary of AVIC. So, the question is which is this J-10's next generation referring to?
1. modified J-10 that's been talked about
2. twin-engined fighter using many concepts from J-10
3. medium size (EF, Rafale size) fifth generation concept
4. most likely a combination of the above 3
It's your guess depending on whether you are an optimist or pessimist. Anyhow, just some speculations.

Great job there Tphuang

I would say it's the same plane that would be equal or approaching the Typhoon/Rafale capabilities. More like a platform for testing and ironing out the technologies that would eventually end up on J-XX.

But then wasn't there some news saying that J-10's next version will fly in 2006(5 years!!! )

Hot news!

I think it will be the Chengdu 5th generation fighter that will fly before 2010. After all, the Russians are making noises that they expect PAK-FA to fly around 2008. From what I've gathered, the Chinese 5th generation fighter program(s) progresses roughly along the same timeline as PAK-FA.

The modified J-10 and/or the twin-engined version will probably fly even sooner! 2007-08? Fingers crossed.

tphuang said:

yes, you really should get your standards straight. I didn't want to say anything this morning, but we all see to have some misconceptions here.
Chinese 3rd generation = Western 4th generation, because China skipped the Western 3rd generation pretty much
4th generation by any Western standard - the teens, su-27, Mig-29, M2K
4.5 generation - EF, Rafale, su-35, Gripen, super hornets, F-16 latest block, F-15E, upgraded F-15C
You can argue that J-10 probably started off as 4th generation and will eventually end up in the 4.5 generation.
btw, I'm hesistant putting Gripen even in 4.5, because I'm not a big fan of it, but most people seem to enjoy putting it on the same level as EF and Rafale.

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Thanks tphuang, my mistake... I have gotten generation standards from croatian military yourneal. In there recent article they reffered at Gripin as first 4th gen fighter in operational service. I guess they f.... up
What I was tryng to say is that j-10s curent version is in terms of aircraft technology and avionics more compareble to 4th gen fighters like F16C or M2000-5 rather then EF and Rafale and I think that PLAAF realisses that too... That`s why they are developing advanced version of it...
I think that next version of j-10 is redesigned in same way like the Hornet was from C/D to E/F and that advanced j-10 with lowerd RCS, WS-10ATVC, better sensors and countermeasures could close the gap with F-18E and approach the EF/Rafale capabilities...