Russian Su-57 Aircraft Thread (PAK-FA and IAF FGFA)

SampanViking said:

The T-50 is a warplane and a feature of warplanes is that they can take knocks and damage and be repaired again in a reasonable time for a return to combat. Damage is a part of the design brief.

Why do people suppose the T-50 is different?

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No I don't think it is different.

It simply depends on how severe the damage was especially to the inner structure, the loading beams and so on, and maybe this fact alone is the single reason to try to repair it: To report the public HEY we could do that and to get the information about what'a necessary to do it after such a damage.

However in mind of being a prototype that has most of all at this stage the only duty to fly as much as possible, to gain as many flight hours to explore the flight regime ... it is sometimes not economically usefull to do such a heavy repair.

Again I do not want to bash that type ... even more I think it's proof for the quality that it returned safely home without a loss. However with such a severly burned airframe I think it is a total loss. Nothing more ... but all evidence so far and with each day passing by I even more tend to see it as a proof.

To continue hoping for a miracle is fine but especially with posting old and dated reports on and on seem to be more like wishful-thinking that a logic conclusion. But YES, a final conclusion will be only possible when we see that bird again or UAC admits that it is a loss.

Deino

Brumby said:

Precisely the point. If the premise is that the damaged plane can be reconstituted, then the logical conclusion is once sufficient time has elapsed there should be physical evidence of its re-entry into service. Logic also dictates that if sufficient time has elapsed and there is no evidence of its re-entry back into service, the evidence will then start to shift to the alternate conclusion and that is damage was too severe for a reconstitution.

As Sherlock Holmes used to say “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.”

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It's only been 6 months. Just the strengthening of the T-50-1 took a year. It is too early for any type of conclusions. The rebuild of the Mig-29 for the IAF also took far more than a year. And this included replacing the entire spine to make the aircraft bigger.

The difference is easily noticeable.
Mig-29A


Mig-29UPG


Fixing the spine is going to take time, but not an impossible goal. Building a new PAKFA prototype may cost upwards of $100 Million. The Mig-29 upgrade was just $15 Million, cost including electronics and engine upgrades. The PAKFA rebuild is not going to be very expensive.

Elementary, my dear Watson.

You simply don't understand. It is surely possible to repair that beast. in the worst case they invest 250 Mio. $, use only the front section, the tails and all the rest has to be new. YES ... but is the economical a wise step ?

I remember the Canadian Franken-Hornet when two crashed F/A-18s were used to build one flyable again ... everything is possible, the question is only would not a newly build airframe simply be cheaper ?

I have indeed the feelings a few here are too much on a pure T-50-fan-boy-party and everything that is said against or can be seen against their loving type is pure blasphemy !

Deino

Completed preliminary design of the export version of the FGFA fighter

Russia and India have completed the schematic design of the export version of the promising fighter FGFA, the development of which is based on the Russian T-50 (PAK FA). About this in "General staff"

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said regional Director for international cooperation of the United aircraft Corporation Andrey Marcincin. According to him, "we already have the documentation and understanding of the scope of the next phase of design".

Other details regarding the export version of the FGFA representative of the KLA did not disclose. Meanwhile, Marchandin told that most likely the Indian version of the FGFA will double in contrast to single Russian T-50. This need is due to the fact that "in the difficult conditions of modern war, it is extremely difficult to simultaneously maneuver and shoot at the enemy".

The development of advanced fighter FGFA participates Russian Sukhoi and India's Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. The share of India in the project defined at the level of 40 percent. Double aircraft FGFA will be armed with the Indian guided missile Astra, as well as supersonic cruise missile BrahMos joint development.

The FGFA prototype developed on the basis of the T-50 (PAK FA) India expects to receive for testing by 2016. Serial production of the aircraft must begin in 2021. In total, the Indian military plans to adopt about 200 fighters of the fifth generation. Their purchase and maintenance is estimated at $ 35 billion.

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@A Bar Brother ,
does this mean the first indian prototype will be imported???

Deino said:

You simply don't understand. It is surely possible to repair that beast. in the worst case they invest 250 Mio. $, use only the front section, the tails and all the rest has to be new. YES ... but is the economical a wise step ?

I remember the Canadian Franken-Hornet when two crashed F/A-18s were used to build one flyable again ... everything is possible, the question is only would not a newly build airframe simply be cheaper ?

I have indeed the feelings a few here are too much on a pure T-50-fan-boy-party and everything that is said against or can be seen against their loving type is pure blasphemy !

Deino

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You are wasting your time Deino.

I long stopped posting in sinodef more frequently precisely because posters are getting more and more dim viewed.
The inability to read between the lines and have a balanced view of things by newer members reduce worthwhile discussion to mere form of knee jerk entertainment. Oh yes I'm elitist.

b787 said:

the experts in T-50 are:

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they make it they know what can be fixed and what can not be fixed they make it
Bogdan is another expert on Sukhoi T-50 he flies it

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You just don't get it.
Anyways I'm out, keep the good job of exporting ignorance to SDF.

A Bar Brother said:

Internally carried weapons were developed long ago. You are forgetting about the Su-47 program which had internal weapons bays.

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These are mockups . So far, only external weapons have been tested and integrated on PAK FA . I haven't seen any pictures of PAK FA carrying internal weapons except CGI of course .

Deino said:

I have indeed the feelings a few here are too much on a pure T-50-fan-boy-party and everything that is said against or can be seen against their loving type is pure blasphemy !

Deino

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The PAKFA is a 4th gen aircraft. The Russians can't deliver. Their electronics are no better. Their latest engine will fail, they are better off with the old underpowered 117. The 5th prototype is gone, lost into oblivion. Sukhoi cannot afford to rebuild it. They should just build more Su-35s instead, it is cheaper and available.

The Indians are being cheated, as usual. More likely because they don't know what they are doing. After all, they chose Raphael, the only ones to do so. The two-seater won't be built. Neither India nor Russian can afford it and is too difficult.

There, now we are back to discussing the usual stuff.

thunderchief said:

These are mockups . So far, only external weapons have been tested and integrated on PAK FA . I haven't seen any pictures of PAK FA carrying internal weapons except CGI of course .

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You don't need production missiles for testing. The mockups are from air shows, hence are mockups. The real stuff is with Sukhoi.

The internal bays are still a secret. Doesn't mean it does not exist, or that the weapons don't exist.

aksha said:

Completed preliminary design of the export version of the FGFA fighter





@A Bar Brother ,
does this mean the first indian prototype will be imported???

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All the prototypes will be imported. We don't have to build any, it will be too expensive and entirely unnecessary.

Our purpose is to test the aircraft that we get using our pilots and technicians.