My town is burning!

Status
Not open for further replies.

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Just curious, since shop owners are protecting themselves with fire arms. What happens if they still come and the shop owners open fire at them, and wound or kill a few of them?

Depends what state you're in. Like with George Zimmerman in Florida it was the Stand Your Ground law where it would be legal. California... hard to tell because if you look at the Rodney King riots there were a lot of Koreans on the roofs of their stores armed with guns. Never heard if any of them fired on anyone. I don't think it would so black and white in California.
 

solarz

Brigadier
Depends what state you're in. Like with George Zimmerman in Florida it was the Stand Your Ground law where it would be legal. California... hard to tell because if you look at the Rodney King riots there were a lot of Koreans on the roofs of their stores armed with guns. Never heard if any of them fired on anyone. I don't think it would so black and white in California.

I imagine just seeing someone with an assault rifle is enough to discourage looting. A person would have to be really high on drugs to charge into the barrel of a gun!
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
Just curious, since shop owners are protecting themselves with fire arms. What happens if they still come and the shop owners open fire at them, and wound or kill a few of them?

Most likely the shop owners would be ok even though it will still be a court case because they have to prove technicalities etc... but the whole idea is prevention and to make the rioters go somewhere else.

There is also what is called the 'Castle Doctrine' that allows deadly force to be use under certain circumstances but it varies slightly from state to state. The one below is from Missouri.

Universal Citation: MO Rev Stat § 563.031 (2013)
Use of force in defense of persons.

563.031. 1. A person may, subject to the provisions of subsection 2 of this section, use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he or she reasonably believes such force to be necessary to defend himself or herself or a third person from what he or she reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful force by such other person, unless:

(1) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his or her use of force is nevertheless justifiable provided:

(a) He or she has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened use of unlawful force; or

(b) He or she is a law enforcement officer and as such is an aggressor pursuant to section 563.046; or

(c) The aggressor is justified under some other provision of this chapter or other provision of law;

(2) Under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the person whom he or she seeks to protect would not be justified in using such protective force;

(3) The actor was attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of a forcible felony.

2. A person may not use deadly force upon another person under the circumstances specified in subsection 1 of this section unless:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such deadly force is necessary to protect himself, or herself or her unborn child, or another against death, serious physical injury, or any forcible felony;

(2) Such force is used against a person who unlawfully enters, remains after unlawfully entering, or attempts to unlawfully enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle lawfully occupied by such person; or

(3) Such force is used against a person who unlawfully enters, remains after unlawfully entering, or attempts to unlawfully enter private property that is owned or leased by an individual claiming a justification of using protective force under this section.

3. A person does not have a duty to retreat from a dwelling, residence, or vehicle where the person is not unlawfully entering or unlawfully remaining. A person does not have a duty to retreat from private property that is owned or leased by such individual.

4. The justification afforded by this section extends to the use of physical restraint as protective force provided that the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the restraint as soon as it is reasonable to do so.

5. The defendant shall have the burden of injecting the issue of justification under this section. If a defendant asserts that his or her use of force is described under subdivision (2) of subsection 2 of this section, the burden shall then be on the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not reasonably believe that the use of such force was necessary to defend against what he or she reasonably believed was the use or imminent use of unlawful force.

(L. 1977 S.B. 60, A.L. 1993 S.B. 180, A.L. 2007 S.B. 62 & 41, A.L. 2010 H.B. 1692, et al. merged with H.B. 2081)
 
You are sadly mistaken.

Martin came up from behind Zimmerman and confronted him, then punched him, knocking him to the ground and was beating Zimmerman's head onto the ground when he noticed Zimmerman's concealed firearm, which he then grappled with Zimmerman for.

That's when he was shot.

Zimmerman was a Neighborhood Watch... he was doing what he was supposed to do. Seeing suspicious people and reporting them.

That case, like this one, was trumped up severely by people with an ideological agenda.

But when a Grand Jury, which is made up of ordinary citizens, looked at all the evidence there, like here, for weeks, the NO BILLED Zimmerman, just like they did Officer Wilson. They had lesser charges they could have indicted him on...but they did not. This means that the evidence was so utterly overwhelming to the innocent of both of these individuals, that they could not honestly or in good conscience charge them with anything...even with an abject threat...no, a promise...or rioting hanging over it all.

You want the real tragedy? In Chicago, scores of young black people are killed EVERY WEEKEND. These same ideologues and agitators ignore it. The media largely ignores it. Why...because it does not fit their agenda or narrative. So, in a place where a young black man...and even innocent children are 500 ties more likely to di...and over 96% of the time at the hands of criminal black gangs...the outrage is absent. The wall to wall coverage is absent. The President's outrage and that of Eric Holder is absent. But the young people and innocent bystanders continue to die week in and week out.

That's what is sad...tragic...and illustrative of what the agenda is.

Sorry ... /rant.

Actually you are sadly mistaken about the Martin Zimmerman case.

Nobody knows for sure exactly how physical altercation between Martin and Zimmerman happened with the exception of Martin who is dead and Zimmerman who is suspect.

What is known for sure is that Zimmerman did much more than just seeing suspicious people and reporting them. He followed Martin at length and did not identify himself as Neighborhood Watch, which may reasonably have been interpreted by Martin as the actions of a stalker or mugger.

The version of the story you recounted has been just as trumped up by those with an ideological agenda as some other versions.

At best what happened between Martin and Zimmerman is a tragic case of lack of communication, faulty assumptions ("assume makes an ass out of u and me"), and how violence worsened a situation, cost someone their life, and solved nothing. This is tragedy enough and plenty of food for thought without getting into worse case possibilities of what happened.

Justice systems made up by people, investigations conducted by people, and jurors who are people, are not perfect and fail from time to time. These cases also occur in a larger social context and regardless of the individual case's merits the results may be the straw that breaks the camel's back on some tangentially related societal frustration.
 

Piotr

Banned Idiot
Some informations from independent sources about spontaneous, grassroots, pro-democracy protests in the US:

Michael Brown's family claims Ferguson investigation was 'broken'
Published time: November 25, 2014 17:36
Attorneys for the family of slain teenager Michael Brown said Monday that the investigation into the officer involved shooting in Ferguson, Missouri has been “broken” and “unfair.”
...

...Violence in Ferguson has been entirely instigated by the state, beginning with the shooting of the unarmed Brown.

...According to an American political commentator Susanne Posel - Darren Wilson is racist


...US police persecute foreigh journalists for covering pro-democracy protests in the US:

...US is violating human rights

Piotr, stop interjecting our won anti-American bias into this and dredging up political activists who do the same. No politics...no ideology.

THIS IS AN OFFICIAL WARNING

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
This article was published before Missouri grand jury's shameful decision to not indict Darren Wilson:
There was nothing shameful about the Grand Jury's decision in the least.

A Grand Jury is made up of a cross section of everyday citizens. The prosecution sets them.

The Prosecution (meaning the people who wanted to convict Darren Wilson) then present almost all of the evidence.

They grand jury went over this evidence for weeks.

The evidence showed that Michael Brown robbed a store before the incident. His actions constituted a felony.

In that state of mind (having just strong armed rob a store), when confronted by the officer, who at first was not aware of the robbery, Brown profaned the officer, did not get out of the street as requested and kept walking. When the officer followed and repeated the request, Brown used his weight to prevent the officer from exiting his car, and then struggled with and struck the officer while he was in his car. He attempted to get the officer's weapon. The officer ultimately fired his weapon in the car in desperation, and Brown ran. Brown had committed another felon in assaulting the officer.

The witnesses and the forensics showed this was the case.

As the office then got the reports of the robbery and exited his vehicle as Brown departed, he gave chase and with his weapon drawn ordered Brown to stop. Brown turned and charged the officer. He did not ask him to "Not shoot." He did not fall to the ground with his hands up.

The forensics and witnesses all showed these events to be the case. And the Grand Jury deliberated on all of them.

Most of the witnesses were African American. The principle witness saying something different was Brown's accomplice in the robbery, who was walking with him. Darrion Johnson's story has changed, and it is prejudiced by his own actions that day. And the other witneses, and the forensics have shown it to be in very serious question.

The Grand Jury had five crimes they could have indicted Wilson on ranging from illegal use of force up to 1st degree murder. The evidence did not support any of those. They poured over that evidence for weeks. They new the ramifications and the gravity of the situation. If there wad a shred of a reason to indict him...they would have.

But they did not.

This was because the evidence did not support it...no more than it did in the Treyvon Martin case in Florida. The whole thing, in both cases, was an emotionally created situation where politicians and activists played on people's emotion and presented an emotional false narrative which the press picked up...before any investigation...which prejudiced many people's minds. People who never saw the evidence. It was done to demand action outside of the system.

But it does not work that way.

There was nothing shameful at all about what that Grand Jury did.

The shame here was that a very big and strong young man went wrong. He made very bad decisions, committed felonies, and then suffered the consequences of those actions. A life truly wasted. That is a shame...that is sad...that is devastating to the family...but it happened and the choices were his own.

At any time...in the store, in the first meeting with the officer, at the time the officer ordered him to stop...he could have made different choices that would have resulted in him not being shot. But he did not.

As it is, this thread is about Kwaig's reports of events. It is not about the activism, is it not about the the ideologies, and it is not about the politics, Please stop interjecting it.

Thanks.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
Kwaig, over the last coupl of days two things are happening that are going to reduce the violence (I hope and pray):

1st, citizens and shop owners are defending their own shops now.


15704159760_f817821124_b.jpg


15269189364_7e38b5e0f0_b.jpg


15889462731_4d044bf539_b.jpg


Those shops and stores are not being attacked, looted, or torched.

2nd, the National Guard is now present ion numbers.


15703950988_898c3076e4_b.jpg


15269189554_2195aa0464_b.jpg


15692077919_b5de86e0a8_b.jpg


The Guard is helping local and state police identify and remove the looters, arsonists, violent offenders, and agitators from the scene,

I pray this will, along with the colder weather, reduce the looting, burning, and violence.

See my
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
for more pictures. I am updating it regularly.
 

delft

Brigadier
2nd, the National Guard is now present ion numbers.


15703950988_898c3076e4_b.jpg


15269189554_2195aa0464_b.jpg


15692077919_b5de86e0a8_b.jpg


The Guard is helping local and state police identify and remove the looters, arsonists, violent offenders, and agitators from the scene,

I pray this will, along with the colder weather, reduce the looting, burning, and violence.

See my
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
for more pictures. I am updating it regularly.
But why were they there not before the publication of the Grand Jury verdict and why was that verdict published so late in the day?
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
But why were they there not before the publication of the Grand Jury verdict and why was that verdict published so late in the day?
Delft, we can agree that mistakes were made. I do not know the answers to your question. I believe those were mistakes.

But I am not going to try and speculate about all sorts of conspiracies and discuss it here on SD.

Let us all pray that such violence and such criminality will cease...anywhere. Let us work together with our vote and influence to make that possible.

But let's not delve into the ideology and[politics here on SD.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
But why were they there not before the publication of the Grand Jury verdict and why was that verdict published so late in the day?

A much more honest and fair question master delft, you're so much more fun to talk to when you engage the rational, reasonable, engineer side of your brain buddy, but I love you anyway,,,,,,, so to answer your question, lots of people are asking that question, since everybody knew that Darrin Wilson is innocent of a crime, and was simply doing his job as a police officer in one of the most violent cities in the Nation.

The mayor of Ferguson and Lt. Governor Peter Kinder are rather certain that the Guv received a "word", from BHO or AT Gen Holder to keep the guard away from the protestors, maybe hoping that the protestors would heed the call for calm...

For whatever reason, even though the Governor had previously declared a "state of emergency" and activated the guard, he did not deploy the guard other than to key infrastructure sites to protect those sites. In hind site a real mistake?

The truth is that the "Thug Mentality" is alive and well, and applauded, given sympathy, free press, encouragement, and allowed to flourish on the basis of a simmering hatred, that has taken root and flourished during Mr. Obama's term in office---AT GEN Holder also seems to bring a "victim mentality" to the game, even though he is the most powerful law enforcement officer on the "Planet"????

IMHO for the President and Attorney General to bring this "victim mentality" to their positions as two of the most powerful men on the Planet, is very small minded, and unproductive to the Nation, and seems to be an extension of some type of "entitlement mentality", where you see yourself as a victim, and hold that everyone else should "bow down" and wait on you like they are your "servants". Sorry slavery was outlawed in this country a long time ago, and America continues to work very hard to be a color-blind society, time to quit hiding behind the color of your skin and blaming all your trouble on somebody else.......I mean really, give me a break?? Its time to take responsibility for your own actions, as well as those of your children, and tell the truth! The grand jury rendered the only decision it could have, when the truth came out, Michael Brown commited aggravated assault on the store owner, then continued on down the middle of the street, and when asked to step out of the street by officer Wilson, physically assaulted him, and attempted to steal his duty weapon????
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top