China's Offensive Capacity?
- Thread starter Matt_E
- Start date
ChinaWall65
Banned Idiot
probably not...war costs money, and china doesn't need to spend that money. but if china absolutley have to fight a trans continental conflict, china will still go to war.
Ender Wiggin
Junior Member
I have no doubt in their ability to defend themselves in any situation, an offencive war is different as the guy above said it costs money.
But say that based on assets that had to have military operations beyond their borders I have no doubt that there is not a single country bordering China that could hold out against a conventional attack even the Russians.
Sea wars are different their navy and airforces are not advanced enough yet in either numbers or technological proffiency to do much good unless uspported by the Russians and some other people.
But say that based on assets that had to have military operations beyond their borders I have no doubt that there is not a single country bordering China that could hold out against a conventional attack even the Russians.
Sea wars are different their navy and airforces are not advanced enough yet in either numbers or technological proffiency to do much good unless uspported by the Russians and some other people.
China can deploy its forces in an offensive land war, as Ender said. Invading the -stan nations on its Western border would be easy for China. Nepal, Bhutan and India would be more of a logistic problem but the first two would be a cakewalk. Let's not talk about India.
The real trouble is in a force projection scenario. China could never do what the US did in Iraq (move an entire invasion force with all the logistic and combat support it needs all the way across the world). Although I don't know what capabilites the Chinese have as far as more limited operations. For example, could the Chinese invade Madagascar? (horrible example, but its size, distance, international clout/alliances (or lack thereof) and military capability make it the best one I could think of).
The real trouble is in a force projection scenario. China could never do what the US did in Iraq (move an entire invasion force with all the logistic and combat support it needs all the way across the world). Although I don't know what capabilites the Chinese have as far as more limited operations. For example, could the Chinese invade Madagascar? (horrible example, but its size, distance, international clout/alliances (or lack thereof) and military capability make it the best one I could think of).
Kampfwagen
Junior Member
They might invade Madagasgar, probably looking for LMD's (Lemurs of Mass Destruction.)
In all seriousness, the Chinese Military strategy centers primarily on defense with the exception of Taiwan, because they are litteraly surrounded by enemies, or possible enemy nations with the possible exceptions of Pakistan and Russia. To attack an offshore or next-door enemy would be a costly fight from a nation just starting to make a revision of it's armed forces.
In all seriousness, the Chinese Military strategy centers primarily on defense with the exception of Taiwan, because they are litteraly surrounded by enemies, or possible enemy nations with the possible exceptions of Pakistan and Russia. To attack an offshore or next-door enemy would be a costly fight from a nation just starting to make a revision of it's armed forces.
I agree with Kampfwagen.
China currently has about enough landing crafts and amphibious assault ships for 3 infantry divisions I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). Those are going to be used in case of an invasion on Taiwan. Other Chinese offensive capabilities include short ranged fighters (hey, the Flankers don't have enough range to cover too deep into countries like, say, Russia or Kazakhstan), few long ranged ballistic missiles, many obsolete and near-obsolete ships, with a few modern, deadly, and atleast semi-stealthy ships. These aren't enough to go against any navy in the area, except perhaps the Koreas, and perhaps Taiwan. A good number of noisy submarines, with few very silent diesel subs. S-300 SAM's and a hellish number of AAA. Along with hundreds of short ranged ballistic missiles.
So with these forces, and perhaps using a few highly modernized divisions, China could invade and defeat any country bordering China, with the possible exception of, as previously stated, India and Russia. But also as previously stated, war costs money, and China just wants to develope its economy in peace right now.
From this we can sum up that the problem China is facing now is having a moderate to low number of advanced, or atleast decent equipment, with a huge number of obsolete equipment. So it is reasonable to assume that China will use these crack divisions for any limited warfare, but will use these highly advanced divisions supported with divisions of lower technology, and which received lower priority of modernization, in a broad war, such as war against India or Russia, where large number of troops are required to keep up a cohesive front. China has these advanced equipment, but does China know how to use them proficiently? The PRC has never extensively used aircraft to their advantage in past wars, never been at war on the high seas against a worthy foe, and the past wars that the PRC has fought all involved Soviet doctrine, which is proving more and more out of date. An very important aspect of offensive capability though, is not due to the quality or the number of troops, but the tactics, as seen in WWII. Can the PLAAF efficiently give support to advancing armored columns is just one question.
China currently has about enough landing crafts and amphibious assault ships for 3 infantry divisions I believe (correct me if I'm wrong). Those are going to be used in case of an invasion on Taiwan. Other Chinese offensive capabilities include short ranged fighters (hey, the Flankers don't have enough range to cover too deep into countries like, say, Russia or Kazakhstan), few long ranged ballistic missiles, many obsolete and near-obsolete ships, with a few modern, deadly, and atleast semi-stealthy ships. These aren't enough to go against any navy in the area, except perhaps the Koreas, and perhaps Taiwan. A good number of noisy submarines, with few very silent diesel subs. S-300 SAM's and a hellish number of AAA. Along with hundreds of short ranged ballistic missiles.
So with these forces, and perhaps using a few highly modernized divisions, China could invade and defeat any country bordering China, with the possible exception of, as previously stated, India and Russia. But also as previously stated, war costs money, and China just wants to develope its economy in peace right now.
From this we can sum up that the problem China is facing now is having a moderate to low number of advanced, or atleast decent equipment, with a huge number of obsolete equipment. So it is reasonable to assume that China will use these crack divisions for any limited warfare, but will use these highly advanced divisions supported with divisions of lower technology, and which received lower priority of modernization, in a broad war, such as war against India or Russia, where large number of troops are required to keep up a cohesive front. China has these advanced equipment, but does China know how to use them proficiently? The PRC has never extensively used aircraft to their advantage in past wars, never been at war on the high seas against a worthy foe, and the past wars that the PRC has fought all involved Soviet doctrine, which is proving more and more out of date. An very important aspect of offensive capability though, is not due to the quality or the number of troops, but the tactics, as seen in WWII. Can the PLAAF efficiently give support to advancing armored columns is just one question.
My Madagascar analogy was intending to show that the PLA could not attack nations that are far away from China, no matter how weak their military capabilities.
Good post obseccion. I think that China would be well served to develop a core of crack divisions that are equipped with modern equipment and then develop enough logistical capability to deploy and support them all around China's borders. In the future, China will need to defend its regional interests in order to sustain its economic upward progress. For example, China might feel the need to intervene in Kazakhstan to protect its energy resources if teh regieme there falls or if China deems unfriendly foreign interests are getting to much influence there. Basically, China's offensive capability should be thus:
Land warfare capability to wage war around China's periphery in Central Asia in order to protect energy interests etc.
Ballistic missle capability that is powerful enough to help counter the USAFs superiorty in the area of strike aircraft and air defence.
Naval capability that is strong enough to quickly take Taiwan and provide a credibile counterweight to the JMSDF.
Improving the PLAAFs ratio of current to out of date planes and developing a credible in-flight refueling capability to respond to regional threats quickly and offensively.
Securing a large naval base in the Indian Ocean, to allow the PLAN to have force in the Indian Ocean at the start of any conflict, instead of having to send one there through the Straits of Malacca.
Developing these capibilities would make China the dominant power if East asia, and the most powerful Asian nation.
This is just my personal to-do list for the PLA. It focuses on a "good offense is the best defence" strategy. Essentially it is attempting to improve China's offensive capibilities so they can effectively defend China's economic interests from regional challengers, and to allow China to delay a US counterattack on Taiwan.
Good post obseccion. I think that China would be well served to develop a core of crack divisions that are equipped with modern equipment and then develop enough logistical capability to deploy and support them all around China's borders. In the future, China will need to defend its regional interests in order to sustain its economic upward progress. For example, China might feel the need to intervene in Kazakhstan to protect its energy resources if teh regieme there falls or if China deems unfriendly foreign interests are getting to much influence there. Basically, China's offensive capability should be thus:
Land warfare capability to wage war around China's periphery in Central Asia in order to protect energy interests etc.
Ballistic missle capability that is powerful enough to help counter the USAFs superiorty in the area of strike aircraft and air defence.
Naval capability that is strong enough to quickly take Taiwan and provide a credibile counterweight to the JMSDF.
Improving the PLAAFs ratio of current to out of date planes and developing a credible in-flight refueling capability to respond to regional threats quickly and offensively.
Securing a large naval base in the Indian Ocean, to allow the PLAN to have force in the Indian Ocean at the start of any conflict, instead of having to send one there through the Straits of Malacca.
Developing these capibilities would make China the dominant power if East asia, and the most powerful Asian nation.
This is just my personal to-do list for the PLA. It focuses on a "good offense is the best defence" strategy. Essentially it is attempting to improve China's offensive capibilities so they can effectively defend China's economic interests from regional challengers, and to allow China to delay a US counterattack on Taiwan.
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MaxTesla
New Member
Uhm people are over looking one big thing.
There can be no war between countires that have lots of nukes. So it is ridicules to think that there can be any war between Russia and China because both would nuke each other and guaranty absolut extermination. Both countries also have lots of none nuclear WMD so any war is out of the question.
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No country bashing! whatch it! (and sorry for beeing late, had have busy week...)
There can be no war between countires that have lots of nukes. So it is ridicules to think that there can be any war between Russia and China because both would nuke each other and guaranty absolut extermination. Both countries also have lots of none nuclear WMD so any war is out of the question.
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No country bashing! whatch it! (and sorry for beeing late, had have busy week...)
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MaxTesla said:
That is simply not true. Nations do not go about nuking each other. Ever heard of MAD
? It keeps great power wars conventional. Besides, China does not have the capability to take on Russia of the US in a nuclear war. It is a long way behind both countries. It is in the PRCs interest to keep all of its wars conventional, especially one agianst Russia. The PLA would hand the Russian Army's ass to it. What about the Kargil War in 1997? Both India and Pakistan had nukes. Anyway that is not the discussion. We are talking about China's capability to deploy its forces in an offensive manner in a conventional war.
MaxTesla
New Member
That is my point no war can exsist between 2 real powers. And you are draging in some little border skirmish between 2 emerging powers and back then neither of those 2 powers hade an arsenal of MWD they were just starting to build it. It was a small border skirmish not a war. MAD guarantees that no war can happen between 2 real powers.
Chinas abillity to project its power if needed is as good as any other countries if not better. We are no longer in the 40s, to deploy and reinforce troops if so needed is no problem. The question is why would China want to. There is no need.
Chinas abillity to project its power if needed is as good as any other countries if not better. We are no longer in the 40s, to deploy and reinforce troops if so needed is no problem. The question is why would China want to. There is no need.