China Geopolitical News Thread

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nameless

Junior Member
Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Blackstone said:
Yes, you're right, and I stand corrected. The poll in question is a snap shot in time and doesn't show trend on its own.


I said the poll showed China's neighbors are "nervous" about it, and not who is the greatest threat. But, if you were to ask me who the greatest threat to peace in the region is, I'd say Japan.


Fair enough, I take your point as item 1 above.


No, I disagree. The poll show there are many nations that are nervous about China, even ones currently enjoying friendly relations with it. US is preferred by more of China's neighbors than the original Middle Kingdom.
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I disagree, concerned about conflict does not equal nervous about China, due to the fact that China is one of their top trade partners and war in the region can be bad for everyone since all the countries polled are close to potential zones of conflict. Again missing a lot of countries and more importantly in terms of threat perception most of the aims these countries even those US allies is not directed at China. For example 11% in Thailand consider Cambodia to be a threat which constitute their greatest threat, is this a sign of nervousness about China?
 
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Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Blackstone said:
And who says the polls are flawed? China fanbois will dislike the poll and call them flawed, and China critics will say the opposite. Reasonable people look at the data and use some common sense; is it reasonable for China's neighbors to be concerned about her future hegemonic intentions, even if she swears all the way to Sunday she wouldn't? If your answer is "no," then you're not rational.
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Yeah right meanwhile the anti-China Communist fanbois will grab any article and any poll to display and dramatize their claim of the big bad China growth is stirring up problems in the region. Reasonable people will look at history and current events from all view points to make comparison instead of just a singular data that misrepresent the reality of the region. Does ALL of the people in each of China's neighbors felt this way about China or just a certain few? How does one know for sure?
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Re: East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

Blackstone said:
My take of the polling data is the US has a bright future in Asia, because China's many nervous neighbors want the US around to constrain and balance an evermore powerful and restless Middle Kingdom. Furthermore, should China try and push the US out of Asia, she will see resistance not only from the US (we are a Pacific nation after all), but from most of her nervous neighbors. My final claim is China's neighbors are rightly nervous and shouldn't trust her sweet words of non-hegemonic intentions. That's why they're smart to hedge against China.
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That's a poor excuse to make saying that Asian nations don't have the ability to resolve their own differences peacefully without the present of the US military forces? Again you're making assumptions that Communist China is a cancer to the regions stability and growth when it is China that are reason why it's even growing at all.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
Blackstone said:
Pro-democracy demonstrators vow to continue protests, because Chinese Communist Party wouldn't allow direct and open elections in Hong Kong. My question is how much civil unrest will the Communist overlords tolerate, before sending in the PAP to put down the insurrection?

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Pro Beijing demonstrators will come out in numbers as well. That's good that HK allowed both groups to demonstrate. So how come the Taiwanese elitist regime don't allow such demonstrations in Taipei?
 
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mr.bean

Junior Member
Brumby said:
Obviously, a lot went into the 2 years of negotiations but ultimately the end result is the Basic Law which outlines how HK will be governed over the next 50 years. The current political issue concerns the interpretation of that constitution. Digging up history is seriously missing the point in my view.
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well if we're going to talk about hong kong and their interpretation of the basic law, it's good to know some background and history of how we got here in the first place. because i'm very certain we are going to have some british folks taking some cheap shots at china for denying hongkong democracy. like you said 'you can't have your cake and eat it too' right? fact is the brits never wanted to return hong kong to china and continue to rule that place as a colony for as long as they can and all the western democracies had no problem with that. nobody thought there was anything wrong with a british flag planted on Chinese soil. but now that hongkong is not british ruled all of a sudden we got western democracies so interested in hongkong constitutional affairs. ain't that interesting?
 
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vice

Banned Idiot
POST deleted.

Vice, this post was deleted because it violates several rules of our form. Before you post again READ the forum rules.

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bd popeye

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
delft said:
OT
When does the lease of Guantanamo Bay end? It was signed with the US installed puppet regime - $4000 per years. Cuba has been returning those $4000 ever since 1959.
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There's no end date on the lease. It will end if the US stops paying the lease. The US abandons the base or if both countries mutually agree to end the lease agreement..

By the way the base recieves no resources from Cuba. There's a desalinization plant on the base and wind power now supplies all the electrical needs.

End off topic.
 
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Brumby

Brumby

Major
mr.bean said:
well if we're going to talk about hong kong and their interpretation of the basic law, it's good to know some background and history of how we got here in the first place. because i'm very certain we are going to have some british folks taking some cheap shots at china for denying hongkong democracy. like you said 'you can't have your cake and eat it too' right? fact is the brits never wanted to return hong kong to china and continue to rule that place as a colony for as long as they can and all the western democracies had no problem with that. nobody thought there was anything wrong with a british flag planted on Chinese soil. but now that hongkong is not british ruled all of a sudden we got western democracies so interested in hongkong constitutional affairs. ain't that interesting?
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Your comments doesn't suggest to me that you understand the background issues leading to the current demonstration in HK.

The source of the problem is with article 45 of the Basic Law which states ""The method for selecting the Chief Executive shall be specified in the light of the actual situation in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and in accordance with the principle of gradual and orderly progress. The ultimate aim is the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures." As it is commonly stated, the devil is in the details. Essentially the HK constitution guarantees universal suffrage but how quickly and the means in getting there is currently the source of contention and demonstration. The nominating body for putting a candidate unto the ballot has to be by way of the 1200 member body. In the last election, a pro democracy candidate was able to get onto the ballot box. This seems to have unnerved Beijing which has now tightened the requirement to at least a majority nomination instead of previously 20 % (from memory). As the majority of nomination body of members are Beijing aligned, this change effectively exclude any pro democratic candidates. This is a major contentious point for the pro democratic movement because the promise of universal suffrage as enshrined within the Basic Law is seen as essentially a farce. Additionally from Beijing's standpoint, the promise of universal suffrage is conditional upon the principle of being gradual and orderly and Beijing is moving it at the pace it is comfortable with but not shared by the pro democratic movement.

The current contention is strictly a tension between two opposing political system working through the issues. Please don't bring other Sino-British history into the picture as it is simply a local issue.
 
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mr.bean

Junior Member
Brumby said:
Your comments doesn't suggest to me that you understand the background issues leading to the current demonstration in HK.

The source of the problem is with article 45 of the Basic Law which states ""The method for selecting the Chief Executive shall be specified in the light of the actual situation in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and in accordance with the principle of gradual and orderly progress. The ultimate aim is the selection of the Chief Executive by universal suffrage upon nomination by a broadly representative nominating committee in accordance with democratic procedures." As it is commonly stated, the devil is in the details. Essentially the HK constitution guarantees universal suffrage but how quickly and the means in getting there is currently the source of contention and demonstration. The nominating body for putting a candidate unto the ballot has to be by way of the 1200 member body. In the last election, a pro democracy candidate was able to get onto the ballot box. This seems to have unnerved Beijing which has now tightened the requirement to at least a majority nomination instead of previously 20 % (from memory). As the majority of nomination body of members are Beijing aligned, this change effectively exclude any pro democratic candidates. This is a major contentious point for the pro democratic movement because the promise of universal suffrage as enshrined within the Basic Law is seen as essentially a farce. Additionally from Beijing's standpoint, the promise of universal suffrage is conditional upon the principle of being gradual and orderly and Beijing is moving it at the pace it is comfortable with but not shared by the pro democratic movement.

The current contention is strictly a tension between two opposing political system working through the issues. Please don't bring other Sino-British history into the picture as it is simply a local issue.
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i actually know the issue quite well I get hk local news everyday. if it's simply a ''local'' issue then i'm sure the local hk folks will find a way to solve their problems. it's nice to see hk enjoying the freedoms they have right now to organize and demonstrate for what they believe in or against. this simply was never granted under any time during the English colonial period. let the two opposing camps peacefully present their case to the hk people. what many Chinese folks are wary of is some western govt trying to use this incident in hk for another round of cheap china bashing. like you said it's simply a ''local'' issue.
 
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