The Sino-Russian Strategic Partnership starts to get serious!

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
If you believe the translation into English is correct. There's probably a dozen interpretations. Look at how Obama has to interpret the defense treaty with Japan. Japan seems not to be so sure of the language.
 

mao_jr

Banned Idiot
ver significant development, Russia will procure a lot of sensors and electronic parts from china..

 俄航天界迫切希望与中国合作

  俄罗斯《消息报》8月6日报道称,俄导弹-航天领域企业及军工综合体从下一年度计划向中国一些电子元件基地购买价值约10亿美元的产品。俄航天署消息人士表示,在未来2年左右时间内,俄罗斯的电子元件基地还无法生产航天和军事领域所需数量的电子产品,因此,计划向中国购买数十亿美元的相关产品。该消息人士表示:“我们正在与中国航天科工集团公司合作。它的研究所已向我们提供数十个方案,这些产品要么可以直接替代,要么稍作修改就可以替代美国的产品。在大量购买前,我们正在翻译技术资料,测试产品在敏感性温度、振动、重带电粒子等作用下是否符合所需性能。”本月18日,中国公司的12个从事电子元件研发生产的研究所代表将赴莫斯科参加为俄生产商举办的特别研讨会。之后,类似研讨会还将在圣彼得堡举行。这名消息人士称,这一研讨会是由俄罗斯航天署、列舍特涅夫信息卫星系统股份公司等单位组织的。列舍特涅夫信息卫星系统股份公司已确认中国代表团将访问和准备举行研讨会的消息。俄罗斯导弹航天集团联合公司办公室也表示对发展与中国的合作感兴趣。该公司信息政策部部长伊戈尔·布连科夫表示,该公司准备与所有生产电子元器件的基地合作,只要他们能够在质量、交付日期和价格领域给出具有竞争力的报告。而在西方制裁的背景下,与中国的合作变得尤为迫切。

  据报道,俄罗斯公司每年向美国购买价值约20亿美元的电子元器件。“格洛纳斯-M”卫星75%-80%使用的都是西方国家的电子元件。俄“格洛纳斯”系统首席分析师安德烈·约宁表示,在微电子领域与中国生产商大规模合作,将是组建金砖国家技术联盟的第一步。

  而电子元件还不是中俄合作的唯一领域。据俄新网6日报道,俄罗斯地缘政治问题研究所所长康斯坦丁·西夫科夫表示,本应供应俄罗斯穆利诺作战训练中心的德国莱茵金属公司生产的激光设备完全可用中国同类产品代替。

  中国有能力接盘吗?

  中国军事专家王亚男6日对《环球时报》记者说,中俄合作的可能性很大,俄遭受西方联合制裁,客观上给中俄民用和军用领域的合作创造了非常好的前景。中国目前在这方面,不论是从元器件的生产,还是基础材料的研究,水平不是全球最高的,但产品体系很完整,自给能力很强,而且一直在持续发展,不断进步。王亚男认为,这种合作可能会把中俄军工合作带到更高阶段,比如中国利用现有的元器件研发生产体系和技术人才储备,俄罗斯发挥过去几十年积累的项目集成优势。如果中俄以这种互补的模式进行一些高精尖技术合作,也许可以打破西方对于电子元器件领域的垄断优势。这种合作可能会帮助俄罗斯重建国防科技研发体系的完成性。


 一名不愿透露姓名的中国航天专家6日接受《环球时报》记者采访时也认为,中俄在航天领域合作的可能性存在。俄罗斯每年要发射大量通讯卫星、遥感卫星以及货运和载人飞船,这些装备都需要大量电子元器件,俄正在研制的超级运载火箭“安加拉”也可能在用国外元器件,因此一旦西方借此卡俄罗斯,俄罗斯可以转向从中国购买。但这名专家认为,中国可以帮俄解决很多问题,但不能解决全部问题。一是产品性能能否完全替代西方同类产品,二是种类是否足够齐全,三是新元件与俄方平台可能还需要一个磨合的周期。不过,从中国购买有一系列好处,一是保障供应,二是价格会比较优惠。

  会引发太空新冷战吗?

  这名中国航天专家认为,如果美国在元器件方面卡了俄罗斯的脖子,俄罗斯也会反制美国。这也许会带来一系列连锁反应,甚至引发太空新冷战。比如美国因为没有天地往返系统,所以俄罗斯替美国向国际空间站运送人员和物资的飞船的价格可能会上涨,飞船以后可能会成为俄罗斯的一张牌,还有就是美国用于发射军用卫星的“宇宙神-5”运载火箭上的RD-180发动机是俄罗斯生产的,未来也许就不再卖给美国了。

  不过,王亚男认为,俄罗斯对于向国际空间站运送人员和物资方面,未必会轻易采取重手段,因为俄罗斯在这方面是有道义责任的,如果放弃责任只会在国际空间合作上处于更不利地位,对于俄罗斯经济也没有好处。
 

delft

Brigadier
I see mention in #10 of RD180. Is that the old rocket engine that the US uses in the Atlas 5 rocket?
 

MagnumCromagnon

New Member
I see mention in #10 of RD180. Is that the old rocket engine that the US uses in the Atlas 5 rocket?

RD180 is in many ways the Kalishnikov of rocket engines, it's an old but historically reliable and cost-effective design that has aged gracefully and is still quite useful.
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
Actually Russian engines of that era used a novel staged combustion cycle that simply thought too complicated to work in the US using RP1/LOX. (the only US engine that used staged combustion cycle is the Space Shuttle main engine). This allow Russian to be very efficient and have high trust to weight ratios.

For example the NK-33 meant the Russian moon rocket has the highest weight ratio in the world until introduction of Space X Merlin D engine a full 40 years later. In fact Orbital Science's Antares rocket uses salvaged and modified NK-33s.

Russia still have some nice technology with them, and China and in many ways the US still have much to learn from them.

There is nice documentary about the Russia Engines in the US and why they are chosen. They are just good..
The first portion about the N1 rocket what how the engines are unique, skip to 30:00 to see how the NK-33 engines are discovered, how RD-180 got on to American rockets. However video didn't describe the origins of RD-180, it seems to be imply that RD-180 is based on NK-33. Which is not true. RD-180 is based on RD-170, which uses the same closed cycle principles of NK-33.
[video=youtube;MZnYr94aa9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZnYr94aa9E[/video]
 
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usaf0314

Junior Member
For example the NK-33 meant the Russian moon rocket has the highest weight ratio in the world until introduction of Space X Merlin D engine a full 40 years later. In fact Orbital Science's Antares rocket uses salvaged and modified NK-33s.
them.

This is not a coincidence. Elon Musk went to Russia to study rocket engine technology and incorporated into the SpaceX designs.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
The combined population of Russia and China is about 1.5billion, and their combined GDP is about 17 trillion. Though bilateral trade between the two is much smaller than between China and the EU, it shows the huge potential from the low base. China needs agricultural products and minerals that Russia can undercut Australia while Russia needs China's manufactured goods. Those are the sectors that Chinese companies can invest in with their capital.

The longer the trade ban continues, the stronger the economic bond will be between the two.
 

Agonizing Bliss

New Member
The combined population of Russia and China is about 1.5billion, and their combined GDP is about 17 trillion. Though bilateral trade between the two is much smaller than between China and the EU, it shows the huge potential from the low base. China needs agricultural products and minerals that Russia can undercut Australia while Russia needs China's manufactured goods. Those are the sectors that Chinese companies can invest in with their capital.

The longer the trade ban continues, the stronger the economic bond will be between the two.

If EU and USA are willing to provide us high-latitude weapons as Russia.
We will not do this.
 
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